# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 68
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1342 "2014-01-29T23:11:14Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > By using the same standards you judged Obamacare on; if one person loses their Obamacare policy, the Republican plan is an utter failure. Don’t forget that both Health Care and Health Insurance must not increase in cost when compared to Obamacare. Oh yeah, it has to be a “Job Creating” reform. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1343 "2014-01-30T00:38:39Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > By using the same standards you judged Obamacare on; if one person loses their Obamacare policy, the Republican plan is an utter failure. Like I said, it’s not hard to come up with a grandfathering solution for a few hundred thousand people. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1344 "2014-01-30T00:58:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Like I said, it’s not hard to come up with a grandfathering solution for a few hundred thousand people. But marginally harder for seven million people. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1345 "2014-01-30T01:15:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Like I said, it’s not hard to come up with a grandfathering solution for a few hundred thousand people. It is hard, and that explains why the Republican did not come with a plan early. > **[Behold: A Republican Health Care Plan | BillMoyers.com](https://billmoyers.com/2014/01/28/behold-a-republican-health-care-plan/)** > > The problem is that it’s grounded in the same old conservative thinking about what ails our health care system. > [@](#): > > In their quest to repeal Obamacare, Republicans have faced two political problems. First, while the Affordable Care Act isn’t a popular law, polls show that the idea of simply going back to the way things were is far less popular. > > The second is that for the last three years they’ve been promising a replacement for the president’s signature legislation, and their failure to provide one made them look uninterested in — or incapable of –- addressing in a serious way a real problem for American families. > > But on Monday, Sens. Richard Burr (R-NC), Tom Coburn (R-OK) and Orrin Hatch (R-UT) — three Republicans who have long worked on health care issues — tried to address these problems by finally unveiling a comprehensive alternative to Obamacare. > > In one sense, it’s a sign of progress, an acknowledgement that Obamacare is changing the American health care system in ways that can’t easily be undone and a concrete proposal that can serve as a point of serious debate. > > The problem is that it’s grounded in the same old conservative thinking about what ails our health care system. And, as such, a central piece of the lawmakers’ solution is making the vast majority of Americans pay more for their coverage. > [@](#): > > Obamacare expands eligibility for Medicaid (in states that opt in) to everyone making up to 133 percent of the poverty line. The GOP replacement would limit that to a much smaller population – pregnant women and poor children – and encourage lower-income individuals and families to buy private insurance. > > Like the ACA, the Republicans’ alternative would allow young people to stay on their parents’ plans until age 26. > > It would increase the difference between what insurance companies could charge men and women, and older and younger customers. > > It would repeal the law’s limit on annual out-of-pocket costs — which was designed to address medical bankruptcies – and most other regulations, including the ACA’s requirement that insurance companies spend most of their revenues from premiums on health care rather than administration. Insurers would no longer be required to cover a basket of preventive services without co-pays. > > Ultimately, it’s clear why Republicans have been so hesitant to offer a concrete plan to replace the ACA. Their plan repeals Obamacare’s cost controls, covers fewer people and would stick most Americans with a bigger bill. At the same time, it maintains many of the basic structures of the Affordable Care Act — a tacit acknowledgement of the law’s legitimacy. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1346 "2014-01-30T01:17:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Now that Republicans have an alternative plan Where? :dubious: Note that all those three worthies have offered is already in place, except for restoring the possibility of a family’s financial ruin. So, even as far as that goes, how would passing it constitute a, what do you say, “utter defeat” for ACA? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1347 "2014-01-30T01:32:06Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > But marginally harder for seven million people. There you go again, buying the administration’s numbers. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1348 "2014-01-30T01:44:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There you go again, buying the administration’s numbers. You have better numbers? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1349 "2014-01-30T01:50:31Z")
For those who have not seen the newest Republican proposal (not yet a bill), [here](http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2014/January/28/gop-alternative-health-plan.aspx) is a link to several news reports about the Patient Choice, Affordability, Responsibility, and Empowerment (CARE) Act and here is the press [release](http://www.hatch.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/releases?ID=e2ba7198-3031-4a62-992c-42caec55f00e). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1350 "2014-01-30T01:58:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Now that Republicans have an alternative plan… I want Republicans to run on this in November: > [@](#): > > And the plan would repeal the requirement that insurers cover people with pre-existing health conditions… > **[Key Senate Republicans Offer Their Plan To Replace Obamacare](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/01/27/267220145/key-senate-republicans-offer-their-plan-to-replace-obamacare/)** > > "Obamacare just isn't working," Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, said on the Senate floor Monday afternoon. So he and two of his more influential Republican colleagues have proposed yet another plan to rewrite the Affordable Care Act. A lot of people will lose their coverage. Instant fail. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1351 "2014-01-30T02:04:09Z")
Lance, I don’t have better Medicaid numbers, but on the exchanges, insurers are reporting that 30-50% of people who chose a plan did not pay. If Amazon reported everyone who put something in a cart as a sale, there stock would be worth three times as much as it is now. The administration used an unprecedented and blatantly dishonest measurement to report signups. If the customer doesn’t pay, then he hasn’t signed up for insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1352 "2014-01-30T02:16:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Lance, I don’t have better Medicaid numbers, but on the exchanges, insurers are reporting that 30-50% of people who chose a plan did not pay. I enrolled on November 5th. My insurer didn’t contact me until December 9th. My insurer wouldn’t accept my payment until December 18th. It cleared my insurer on January 16th, and I just got my card last week. Yes, the system sucks. But there are millions of people in the process like I was, and they will be paid up. It is naive to assume that because their payments haven’t posted yet, they will never pay. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1353 "2014-01-30T11:27:41Z")
Many will not pay. The administration assumes a 100% payment rate. Their Medicaid numbers are also optimistic, as Glenn Kessler’s fact check showed. The fact is, if you repeal and replace ACA, you only have to do something for those who got insurance through ACA. Those that had insurance before will (mostly) happily move back to their old plans that they lost due to ACA. Those who were already eligible for Medicaid will remain eligible for Medicaid. So you just have to do something for those people who got new coverage through ACA, and so far that’s not likely to be a big number. And I notice no one wanted to grapple with the question. I didn’t ask whether anyone thought it was a good plan. Just whether if it passed, it would be considered the utter defeat of ACA, or the entrenchment of ACA’s most important aspects. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1354 "2014-01-30T12:42:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The fact is, if you repeal and replace ACA, you only have to do something for those who got insurance through ACA. Those that had insurance before will (mostly) happily move back to their old plans that they lost due to ACA. Those who were already eligible for Medicaid will remain eligible for Medicaid. So you just have to do something for those people who got new coverage through ACA, and so far that’s not likely to be a big number. The ACA considerably expanded the eligibility coverage of Medicaid. If you repeal ACA, those who got Medicaid through that ACA expanded coverage would no longer be eligible. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1355 "2014-01-30T12:56:39Z")
Only a small fraction of the eligible population has applied. I’m sure something can be worked out. Grandfathering is not hard if you actually intend to grandfather something in. The Obama administration never had any intention of allowing people to keep their old policies. Republicans won’t break that trust, assuming they make such a promise. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1356 "2014-01-30T13:07:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Republicans won’t break that trust, assuming they make such a promise. You. Are. ADORABLE. These are the same Republicans who talk about small government and low spending and then, whenever they get into office, expand the government and the deficit by huge amounts, right? They can’t even stick to the big, obvious promises. But THIS TIME they mean it! Or they would do, if they theoretically promised to do this hypothetical thing as part of their vague and non-specific plan. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1357 "2014-01-30T13:12:10Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > You. Are. ADORABLE. > > These are the same Republicans who talk about small government and low spending and then, whenever they get into office, expand the government and the deficit by huge amounts, right? They can’t even stick to the big, obvious promises. > > But THIS TIME they mean it! Or they would do, if they theoretically promised to do this hypothetical thing as part of their vague and non-specific plan. I think **adaher** was created in a lab by Roger Ailes and Clear Channel Communications trying to make the perfect consumer of right-wing infotainment. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1358 "2014-01-30T14:44:48Z")
I might be the first person ITT that has gone this far with the following statement, but I’ll say it anyway: The GOP “replacement” plan is a complete and utter JOKE. Now, it might have been mildly useful if it had been proposed _in 2009_ when the ACA was still being drafted, but as it stands now this “alternative” would merely represent a regression to an even worse older status quo. Seriously, conservatives rant on and on about the disruption that Ocare has facilitated in the insurance market, but this GOP plan would be FAR MORE disruptive all in the name of paving the way for LESS health insurance, which, to be frank, is fucking stupid. Plus - and this is driving me up the wall here - the GOP acts as if there would be no political capital AT ALL that would need to be expended in order to repeal the ACA and insert its “replacement.” Seriously, for all the hell that the Democrats endured in order to pass the ACA in the first place, the GOP would deal with at least twice as much pushback in a halfhearted charge to dismantle Obama’s legacy. When you’ve got hundreds of millions of dollars invested into the R&D of the federal website, just as much money flowing to the states, and tens of millions of individuals benefiting from the law by 2017, the Rethugs can’t just expect to do away with all of that and not face a whirlwind of blowback. And I’d love to see how on earth they could ever market the reintroduction of preexisting condition exclusions. Good luck with that dickheads. But I do appreciate that the party is starting to acknowledge that the old status quo was fucking terrible and needed to be fixed, and that none of Ocare’s core tenets can ever really be jettisoned. They’re late to the party, but still, bravo I guess? One last thing: this replacement, like the repeal of the ACA in general, is never going ANYWHERE. The GOP would need to have a Republican POTUS in the White House to make this possible, but even then, they will NEVER have the filibuster-proof majority in the Senate in order to get it through that chamber. Also, the moment this gets drafted into legislation, expect it to get absolutely obliterated by the Democrats in the same way that the GOP have railed against the ACA over the past few years. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1359 "2014-01-30T17:08:02Z")
It could be part of the long-expected process of the Republicans trying to claim \*credit \*for Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1360 "2014-01-30T17:14:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And I notice no one wanted to grapple with the question. I didn’t ask whether anyone thought it was a good plan. Just whether if it passed, it would be considered the utter defeat of ACA, or the entrenchment of ACA’s most important aspects. Not sure why it matters since this has absolutely no chance of passing, but yes obviously replacing the ACA with something that horrible would be a defeat. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1361 "2014-01-30T22:41:09Z")
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but as far as I understand it, the viability of Obamacare is based, in part, on 18 -30 year-old participating at a 40% rate. The current rate is just 18%. A few weeks ago on one of the Sunday morning shows, Ezekiel Emanual (SO not the guy to get anyone to like anything) pointed out what he said was a bright spot, California, where the rate of participation of that young demographic was 26%, which, he pointed out, aligned perfectly with the percent of the population they make up. So, the plan is based on having the youngest demographic participate at a HIGHER rate than how they fall within the population? And keep in mind, that the general consensus is that these young healthy “invincibles” will be participating at a lower rate. Is the plan really THAT badly designed, or did I misunderstand something? Compounding the problem I see what the plan as they’ve devised it, which depends on large numbers of young, healthy people sign ing up is that the Obamacare allows those under age 27 to stay on their parents plan. And that just reduces the chances that they’ll get the numbers of the young they need to join. W.T.F.? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=67) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=69)