# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/121 "2013-05-12T18:25:52Z")
The sequester is not causing any implementation delays. If they don’t increase the debt ceiling, of course that’s their fault, unless of course they pass a debt ceiling increase and the Senate also passes it. Then it’s on the President. But that’s unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/122 "2013-05-13T03:54:27Z")
The Boston Globe reinforces two points I’ve made in this thread: 1. That the law is not actually being fully enacted next year. All sorts of provisions, major and minor, are being delayed. 2. The President is not taking an active role in fixing the problems with implementation, rather he’s making excuses while pushing back deadlines and handing out waivers. From the editorial: > **[In implementing Obamacare, a lighter touch is better - The Boston Globe](https://www.bostonglobe.com/editorials/2013/05/11/implementing-obamacare-lighter-touch-better/in5CATYAJGQkYvK89l4xNK/story.html)** > > This state’s universal health care law was the model for the federal Affordable Care Act, but so far, Massachusetts’ experience with the new national law has proved frustrating. Certainly the experience here doesn’t fully comport with President... Bureaucratic hurdles are inevitable when attempting to reconcile local rules and practices to new federal standards. But even people who strongly support Obamacare, as many people in Massachusetts do, shouldn’t hesitate to call attention to areas where the law is unnecessarily complicated, or where local practices accomplish the same purposes in simpler ways. So far, when it comes to Massachusetts, the federal response has been to grant grace or transition periods. But those periods don’t solve the problems, they merely delay their onset. The Obama administration’s aim should be fixing, rather than finessing, those problems. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/123 "2013-05-25T11:37:44Z")
Now three large insurers won’t be participating in California’s exchanges: > **[UnitedHealth, Aetna and Cigna opt out of California insurance exchange](https://www.latimes.com/business/la-xpm-2013-may-22-la-fi-health-insure-20130523-story.html)** > > UnitedHealth, Aetna and Cigna opt out of California insurance exchange ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/124 "2013-05-25T19:26:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Now three large insurers won’t be participating in California’s exchanges: > > [UnitedHealth, Aetna and Cigna opt out of California insurance exchange](http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/22/business/la-fi-health-insure-20130523) Not really too surprising that these three large insurers opted out, nor is it an indictment of the ACA. From your link: > [@LA Times](#): > > UnitedHealth, Aetna and Cigna are small players now in California’s individual health insurance market. More of their business is focused on large employers, where most Californians receive their health coverage. But the companies signaled a wait-and-see approach on these new government-run marketplaces. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/125 "2013-05-27T12:55:47Z")
Obamacare premiums announced in California exchanges are much lower than projected: > **[Unexpected Health Insurance Rate Shock-California Obamacare Insurance...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/05/24/unexpected-health-insurance-rate-shock-california-obamacare-insurance-exchange-announces-premium-rates/)** > > English: Barack Obama signing the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act at the White House (Photo credit: Wikipedia) Every now and again, a political pundit is required to stand up and admit to the world that he or she got it wrong. For me, this... ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/126 "2013-05-27T16:44:55Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Obamacare premiums announced in California exchanges are much lower than projected: > > [Unexpected Health Insurance Rate Shock-California Obamacare Insurance Exchange Announces Premium Rates](http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/05/24/unexpected-health-insurance-rate-shock-california-obamacare-insurance-exchange-announces-premium-rates/) Beat me to it. I’ve been meaning to come back with a similar response to **adaher** for the past couple of days. Guess what? The principles of free-market capitalism and competition are actually working in CA to _drive down_ the cost of premiums, exactly what the Obama administration has been arguing would happen the entire time. FTR, the CA exchange board has estimated that policies next year will range from a 2% increase to a 29% _decrease_ in costs as opposed to comparable plans that are currently being sold. That entire fact kind of belies the perennial Republican argument that the ACA is going to cause premiums to skyrocket, doesn’t it? It’s kind of funny that there is no coherent counterargument from the GOP as to how the news out of CA is actually terrible. And of course **adaher** won’t respond. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/127 "2013-05-28T07:56:12Z")
Lower than projected. True. But think about what lower than projected means, and think about why supporters of the ACA are using that term. Or, just listen to the California insurance commissioner, who is urging citizens to not compare the prices released with what they pay now. I’ll make it easy for you: lower than projected, but much higher than what people pay now. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/128 "2013-05-28T11:15:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’ll make it easy for you: lower than projected, but much higher than what people pay now. Wrong. According to the calculator on that page, my premium for silver class health insurance (mid range, neither the cheapest nor the most expensive) would be $285 per month. The last quote I got from Anthem/Blue Cross for their cheapest “catastrophic” insurance was over $700 per month. So a better policy under Obamacare will be less than half what I would pay for the worst insurance in the individual market today. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/129 "2013-05-28T11:21:26Z")
> **[Uh oh. This page does not exist.](https://www.coveredca.com/calculating_the_cost.html)** > > We can't bear to see you lost on our website. Use the search function or try one of these links instead. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/130 "2013-05-28T13:17:47Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Wrong. According to the calculator on that page, my premium for silver class health insurance (mid range, neither the cheapest nor the most expensive) would be $285 per month. The last quote I got from Anthem/Blue Cross for their cheapest “catastrophic” insurance was over $700 per month. So a better policy under Obamacare will be less than half what I would pay for the worst insurance in the individual market today. In some case, it will be lower. We’re looking at the average, since it tells us whether most people will pay more or less. > **[eHealth\_Cost\_and\_Benefits\_of\_Individual\_and\_Family\_Health\_Insurance\_2012.pdf](https://news.ehealthinsurance.com/_ir/68/20125/eHealth_Cost_and_Benefits_of_Individual_and_Family_Health_Insurance_2012.pdf)** > > 830.99 KB This says that Californians pay a lot less than $285 per month now. To get quoted $700, you’re either talking about a family plan, or you have conditions that make you a poor risk. If it’s the latter, then congratulations, the ACA was written with you in mind. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/131 "2013-05-30T22:22:29Z")
Oh look… [More than 100 insurers have elected to participate in ACA insurance marketplaces.](http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/302599-white-house-says-health-law-already-boosting-competition) Guess we’ll have even more competition, huh? But the ACA is still apparently government-run socialized medicine. :dubious: Hint: Don’t tell the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/132 "2013-05-31T00:52:56Z")
That I at least agree with. The marketplaces create an easy way for Americans to compare and choose insurance plans, and the lack of a public option prevents socialism from taking over. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/133 "2013-05-31T01:05:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In some case, it will be lower. We’re looking at the average, since it tells us whether most people will pay more or less. > > [http://news.ehealthinsurance.com/\_ir/68/20125/eHealth\_Cost\_and\_Benefits\_of\_Individual\_and\_Family\_Health\_Insurance\_2012.pdf](http://news.ehealthinsurance.com/_ir/68/20125/eHealth_Cost_and_Benefits_of_Individual_and_Family_Health_Insurance_2012.pdf) > > This says that Californians pay a lot less than $285 per month now. > > To get quoted $700, you’re either talking about a family plan, or you have conditions that make you a poor risk. If it’s the latter, then congratulations, the ACA was written with you in mind. Those figures are for HDHPs with a higher average deductible than the Silver Plan. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/134 "2013-05-31T03:57:40Z")
So the AVERAGE buyer has something closer to the Bronze plan? ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/135 "2013-05-31T14:19:33Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > Oh look… > > [More than 100 insurers have elected to participate in ACA insurance marketplaces.](http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/302599-white-house-says-health-law-already-boosting-competition) > > Guess we’ll have even more competition, huh? But the ACA is still apparently government-run socialized medicine. :dubious: > > Hint: Don’t tell the GOP. Considering the fact that the ACA dictates a certain amount of coverage/type of coverage/prices, how does this constitute competition? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/136 "2013-05-31T14:24:53Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > Beat me to it. I’ve been meaning to come back with a similar response to **adaher** for the past couple of days. > > Guess what? The principles of free-market capitalism and competition are actually working in CA to _drive down_ the cost of premiums, exactly what the Obama administration has been arguing would happen the entire time. FTR, the CA exchange board has estimated that policies next year will range from a 2% increase to a 29% _decrease_ in costs as opposed to comparable plans that are currently being sold. That entire fact kind of belies the perennial Republican argument that the ACA is going to cause premiums to skyrocket, doesn’t it? > > It’s kind of funny that there is no coherent counterargument from the GOP as to how the news out of CA is actually terrible. And of course **adaher** won’t respond. Because it’s a projection, and as with all positive projections out of California (“Hey, look! We’ve got a budget surplus this year!”), it’s [generally untrue](http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/05/30/rate-shock-in-california-obamacare-to-increase-individual-insurance-premiums-by-64-146/). ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/137 "2013-05-31T16:06:01Z")
\*\*With less than a year until it’s fully enacted, what is your opinion of the Affordable Care Act? \*\* It’s a bad idea and it’s bad legislation. It will pretty much destroy the healthcare industry as a whole, and it will crater the economy worse than all of Obama’s other screw-ups have. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/138 "2013-05-31T18:38:00Z")
Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance Premiums By 64-146% > **[Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare To Increase Individual Health Insurance...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/05/30/rate-shock-in-california-obamacare-to-increase-individual-insurance-premiums-by-64-146/)** > > Last week, the state of California claimed that its version of Obamacare’s health insurance exchange would actually reduce premiums. “These rates are way below the worst-case gloom-and-doom scenarios we have heard,” boasted Peter Lee, executive... ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/139 "2013-05-31T18:46:27Z")
Avik Roy is doing some strange math in that article, because when I put the info into the website he touts ([eHealthInsurance.com](http://eHealthInsurance.com)) I’m getting much higher monthly rates than what he includes in the article. I think it may be the fact that he’s comparing the median across all zones for a Bronze plan in the exchange to the average of the 5 cheapest plans on the website. He doesn’t even attempt to account for differences in deductible for those 5 cheapest plans compared to the coverages in the Bronze plans. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/140 "2013-05-31T18:53:04Z")
Now I see that later in the article Roy concedes that its more like 35% for comparable levels of coverage in the SF area (to pick one). That sounds about right considering these plans have to cover pre-existing conditions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=8)