# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 71
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1402 "2014-02-03T04:34:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s not true. There is a continuous coverage requirement. You can’t be discriminated against if you are moving from one insurance plan to another. The first enrollment period will not allow discrimination. All people with preexisting conditions have to do is enroll that first year and maintain continuous coverage. > > The way it achieves savings is from lower premiums and lower subsidies. You mean rolling back to the pre-PPACA system. While it was an improvement over the prior system (where you could get slapped with the pre-exsiting coverage crap even if you had continuous coverage), the continuous coverage requirement fails to protect the unemployed. Or people who do not have coverage, or who fumble the paperwork for one freaking day. My wife has asthma. If she loses coverage, you are insisting she go a year without coverage for her asthma meds. Multiply that by millions of asthmatics, and there will be a lot of people dead from lack of care for a serious, chronic, but treatable illness. And a lot more people sick - many sick enough to be unable to work, even if they could find jobs. Now do the same exercise for diabetics, kidney patients, heart patients, etc., and tell me how great your non-plan is. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1403 "2014-02-03T05:31:39Z")
So what you’re saying is that under ACA, if your wife loses coverage, she has no health insurance? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1404 "2014-02-03T14:39:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > According to a think tank, the REpublican alternative costs less and covers more people: > > [So It Turns Out That The Senate Republican Plan To Replace Obamacare Raises Taxes -- And That's A Good Thing](http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/01/31/so-it-turns-out-that-the-senate-republican-plan-to-replace-obamacare-raises-taxes-and-thats-a-good-thing/) > > Of course, I will trust what the CBO has to say about that more than some think tank. > > But let’s say the CBO shocks us all and agrees that it does cost less and covers more people. Would there be ANY good reason for liberal Dopers to not support it? The question is whether Republicans will support it, since as your link points out, it raises taxes, and also does lots of those bad, bad things that ACA critics in the GOP have screamed about, like “a government takeover of health care” (not really, but it’s just as not really as with ACA). Do Republicans really want to do this, or are they only putting it up there because they have to? That comes down to trust. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1405 "2014-02-03T14:59:12Z")
Not really, because if they pass it, they pass it, if they don’t, they don’t. Right now this is the only written down repeal bill. My hope is that if the CBO does say it costs less and covers more, that enough Democrats join Republicans to override a veto, or at least get enough votes that Obama would have to basically admit he was bullshitting when he said he’d listen to ideas that covered as many people and cut costs. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1406 "2014-02-03T15:12:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Not really, because if they pass it, they pass it, if they don’t, they don’t. Right now this is the only written down repeal bill. True, but the reality on the ground is that they know it won’t be enacted. Politicians love to propose, and vote for, bills that give them credit but not the pain of them actually becoming law (like ACA). > [@](#): > > My hope is that if the CBO does say it costs less and covers more, that enough Democrats join Republicans to override a veto, or at least get enough votes that Obama would have to basically admit he was bullshitting when he said he’d listen to ideas that covered as many people and cut costs. The GOP poisoned that well a long time ago. Few Democrats are going to do that. If there are alterations to the ACA, they will come on Democrats’ terms and Democrats will get the credit. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1407 "2014-02-03T15:15:16Z")
Democrats have already broken ranks in large numbers to support two Republican changes to ACA: Letting people keep their old insurance plans, and requiring the administration to notify people when security breaches occurred on the exchange website. I guess you could respond that those aren’t really changes, those are just forcing the President to keep his promises. But it doesn’t really matter if Democrats won’t support the alternative. The key is the CBO. If the CBO gives a favorable report, then Republicans have a genuine alternative that in some ways is superior to ACA. That pretty much derails Democratic arguments in support of ACA, namely that Republicans have no better ideas than repeal. Of course, Democrats can attack the specifics of the Republican plan instead, but if CBO says it’s better I like our odds on winning that argument. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1408 "2014-02-03T15:26:22Z")
I have another challenge for liberal Dopers here in regards to the GOP alternative: aside from the individual mandate, what is the difference between this alternative and the last GOP health care plan? I want to know because I keep hearing that ACA is basically the old Republican health care plan. But this alternative looks more like the old Heritage plan than ACA to me. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1409 "2014-02-03T15:28:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I have another challenge for liberal Dopers here in regards to the GOP alternative: aside from the individual mandate, what is the difference between this alternative and the last GOP health care plan? > > I want to know because I keep hearing that ACA is basically the old Republican health care plan. But this alternative looks more like the old Heritage plan than ACA to me. What’s the difference there? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1410 "2014-02-03T15:28:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So what you’re saying is that under ACA, if your wife loses coverage, she has no health insurance? No - _WITH_ PPACA she (and millions of others) can get/keep coverage even with pre-existing conditions, and even without continuous coverage. The situation _JUST_ _BEFORE_ PPACA prevented denial based on pre-existing conditions if the person had continuous coverage. That was part of the HIPAA law. _BEFORE_ HIPAA, your coverage was at the whim of the insurance company, if you had anything they could call a pre-existing condition. Your proposal is a roll-back to HIPAA, or perhaps before that (depending on how Scrooge-like the GOP is when they vote on the proposal). Your proposal is not better than PPACA. It will not lead to more people being covered. It will not lead to better health outcomes. It _may_ not even save money, since the people who survive a year without coverage for their pre-existing conditions will be sicker than if they had coverage and treatment for the uncovered conditions, and their treatment might end up being more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1411 "2014-02-03T15:31:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Democrats have already broken ranks in large numbers to support two Republican changes to ACA: Letting people keep their old insurance plans, and requiring the administration to notify people when security breaches occurred on the exchange website. Sure, but those are small potatoes. > [@](#): > > But it doesn’t really matter if Democrats won’t support the alternative. The key is the CBO. If the CBO gives a favorable report, then Republicans have a genuine alternative that in some ways is superior to ACA. That pretty much derails Democratic arguments in support of ACA, namely that Republicans have no better ideas than repeal. I’m sure there are other flaws they could point to. > [@](#): > > Of course, Democrats can attack the specifics of the Republican plan instead, but if CBO says it’s better I like our odds on winning that argument. That’s your mistake - the CBO does not say legislation is “better” or “worse.” It simlply provides cost estimates. Cost to the government hardly the only factor. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1412 "2014-02-03T20:57:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Right now this is the only written down repeal bill. At least you got to the heart of the motivation for it with that description. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1413 "2014-02-04T00:40:00Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > What’s the difference there? Obama. And once again, [the GOP have put forward a tale of woe about how a fine upstanding American was been shafted by Obamacare](http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-bette-20140130,0,1703947.story#axzz2sJCryRxJ)…and once again, it’s bullshit. This time made slightly more crazy by the person refusing to even consider any cheaper options from the government website. Because OBAMA. Seriously, with all these thousands and tens of thousands of real people being disadvantaged by Obamacare, you have to wonder why the Republicans keep presenting fake ones. Whatever could the reason be? ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1414 "2014-02-04T18:10:30Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Obama. > > And once again, [the GOP have put forward a tale of woe about how a fine upstanding American was been shafted by Obamacare](http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-bette-20140130,0,1703947.story#axzz2sJCryRxJ)…and once again, it’s bullshit. This time made slightly more crazy by the person refusing to even consider any cheaper options from the government website. Because OBAMA. > > Seriously, with all these thousands and tens of thousands of real people being disadvantaged by Obamacare, you have to wonder why the Republicans keep presenting fake ones. Whatever could the reason be? > **[CBO nearly triples estimate of working hours lost by 2021 due to Affordable...](https://www.cnbc.com/2014/02/04/cbo-nearly-triples-estimate-of-working-hours-lost-by-2021-due-to-affordable-care-act.html)** > > Obama's signature health-care law will keep a historically high number of people out of the labor force, holding down revenue gains, the Congressional Budget Office says. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1415 "2014-02-04T18:13:05Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > [CBO nearly triples estimate of working hours lost by 2021 due to Affordable Care Act](http://www.cnbc.com/id/101352868) You didn’t read it, did you… > [@](#): > > “CBO estimates that the ACA will reduce the total number of hours worked, on net, by about 1.5 to 2 percent during the period from 2017 to 2024, **almost entirely because workers will choose to supply less labor** —given the new taxes and other incentives they will face and the financial benefits some will receive,” said the report. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1416 "2014-02-04T18:14:54Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > [CBO nearly triples estimate of working hours lost by 2021 due to Affordable Care Act](http://www.cnbc.com/id/101352868) From the article: > [@](#): > > CBO estimates that the ACA will reduce the total number of hours worked, on net, by about 1.5 to 2 percent during the period from 2017 to 2024, almost entirely because workers will choose to supply less labor—given the new taxes and other incentives they will face and the financial benefits some will receive Oh, the humanity! People will work less because they can afford to! ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1417 "2014-02-04T18:30:17Z")
Your reading skills leave much to be desired. Yes, just ignore the part about not working to avoid new taxes (who was it who said something about no one but the rich seeing a tax increase?) and granting incentives to not work (something which you liberals claim doesn’t happen), which shifts the tax burden onto those who do. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1418 "2014-02-04T18:37:21Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You didn’t read it, did you… > [@Jas09](#): > > From the article:Oh, the humanity! People will work less because they can afford to! Amazing. Over 2 million people are going to work less, because the effects of Obamacare means that working less will get them lower taxes and more publicly-funded benefits…and you guys cheer for that happening? Guess what happens when millions of people work less in order to pay less taxes and receive more publicly-funded benefits? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1419 "2014-02-04T18:48:08Z")
> [@Monster104](#): > > Amazing. Over 2 million people are going to work less, because the effects of Obamacare means that working less will get them lower taxes and more publicly-funded benefits…and you guys cheer for that happening? Working less doesn’t get them these benefits – some older workers just will finally be able to retire. This is a good thing, both for health and happiness. Having to work until you physically can’t anymore isn’t good for anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1420 "2014-02-04T18:49:11Z")
> [@Monster104](#): > > Amazing. Over 2 million people are going to work less, because the effects of Obamacare means that working less will get them lower taxes and more publicly-funded benefits… That’s not what it says, but I doubt there is any way to convince you that you have misconstrued the report. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1421 "2014-02-04T18:51:59Z")
Further – the CBO doesn’t say 2 million jobs are going away, it says _2 million fewer workers will be looking for jobs_. That’s actually a really good thing for other people looking for jobs, if those 2 million are able to retire by choice! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=70) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=72)