# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 76
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1502 "2014-02-07T21:27:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Those were barely sentences. Explain. The less obviously insulting he is, the more he’s trying to confuse the issue. When conservatives actually have something to complain about, they’re on message like a memo from Fox News. The fact that conservatives are dancing around the issue, saying these vague half-truths about a report most people won’t bother reading is that they know they’re full of it. The CBO has said Obamacare would be a good for the economy. It will increase worker mobility, reduce dependence on employer-based health care, and cause people to be able to leave their current jobs to pursue other goals rather than being tied to it because of the insurance. Once again, reality and facts don’t agree with the GOP talking point and they are\* running scared!\* ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1503 "2014-02-08T01:39:37Z")
Sheesh! The CBO report can be spun to seem quite good or quite bad for Obamacare. Pick your Kool-Aid or choice. I find it odd that those seemingly most opposed to the PPACA on this board seem to be the ones arguing that the CBO reports says PPACA won’t necessarily result in jobs being eliminated. People not losing jobs is good, right? The anti-PPACA crowd can point to the sort of perverse incentive in the PPACA that the CBO report mentioned - that it may encourage some people to work less in order to retain subsidies. The pro-PPACA crowd can point to the people able to pursue other dreams such as opening businesses thanks to their ability to obtain health insurance under the PPACA since they no longer feel locked into a specific job. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2014, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1504 "2014-02-08T04:58:40Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > False. It said that a net 2 million people would choose to stop working. **It did not say any jobs would be lost.** > > If 2 million people stop working (net), that could make room for a net of 2 million to take their place though. Yeah, I mangled that one. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2014, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1505 "2014-02-08T05:06:06Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > So these employers are not going to look to add back that lost labor? They’ll just get by with less work? Uh, yeah? Did you not read any of the articles during the height of the recession about workers being stressed yet [more productive](http://freakonomics.com/2011/11/22/at-least-one-labor-measure-was-up-during-the-recession/) when their laid off coworkers’ workload was redistributed? And that’s with whole jobs being cut, imagine the lack of incentive to replace a handful of hours a week if one or two employees decide to work a bit less. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1506 "2014-02-10T14:40:08Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Uh, yeah? Did you not read any of the articles during the height of the recession about workers being stressed yet [more productive](http://freakonomics.com/2011/11/22/at-least-one-labor-measure-was-up-during-the-recession/) when their laid off coworkers’ workload was redistributed? And that’s with whole jobs being cut, imagine the lack of incentive to replace a handful of hours a week if one or two employees decide to work a bit less. So why haven’t employers cut this extra 2.5 million equivalent workers from their rolls already if its unnecessary? Businesses are supposed to be run efficiently, correct? If a business owner knows that they can get by just fine with their remaining employees once this reduction in hours kicks in, then why haven’t they already cut down to that point. Why do you think businesses want to pay for work that they don’t need? Out of the kindness of their hearts? Lets say that a business needs X amount of labor to be as productive as they need to be, and Y is the amount of reduction expected. If all of a sudden they have (X-Y) available, and they say, well that’s ok, we can get by with that, then why haven’t they already been getting by with that. Why would the business owner just pay for Y extra work that isn’t needed. Wouldn’t that be a violation of the fiduciary duty to maximize profits for shareholders? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1507 "2014-02-10T23:51:28Z")
Today, the Obama administration announced a one year [delay](http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2014/February/10/pm-employer-mandate-delay.aspx) in the employer mandate for employers with 50-99 employees. According to the NYT article, this affects about 2% US private companies. This seems to affect about 8.5% of all employees ([chart 2](http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2012/ted_20120113.htm)) ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1508 "2014-02-11T00:39:53Z")
I see I missed a change to the employer mandate. Firms with 100+ employees only have to cover 70% of employees in 2015, then 95% in 2016 and later. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1509 "2014-02-11T03:50:30Z")
So, when will this law be fully enacted? Or are we ready to admit it’s unworkable as written? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1510 "2014-02-11T13:16:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So, when will this law be fully enacted? Or are we ready to admit it’s unworkable as written? Is it your opinion that any law not enacted exactly as written is unworkable and should be repealed? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1511 "2014-02-11T14:16:16Z")
ACA is seeing more than just a few parts that have to be ignored or delayed or repealed. Then there’s the big one, that Democrats wrote the law intending to coerce the states into expanding Medicaid. That was just ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1512 "2014-02-11T14:25:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > ACA is seeing more than just a few parts that have to be ignored or delayed or repealed. Then there’s the big one, that Democrats wrote the law intending to coerce the states into expanding Medicaid. That was just ignorant. Coerce? Only in conservatopia could offering to pay 100% of the cost for three years be considered “coercion”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1513 "2014-02-11T14:29:48Z")
The coercion part is in taking away all Medicaid funds if they refused. That got smacked down by SCOTUS 7-2. There’s just no excuse for not knowing that wouldn’t fly. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1514 "2014-02-11T15:58:56Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Coerce? Only in conservatopia could offering to pay 100% of the cost for three years be considered “coercion”. I thought we’re supposed to fight ignorance here, not further it by posting such blatantly deceptive half-truths. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1515 "2014-02-11T18:35:07Z")
I’ll be generous and assume that Fear Itself was only aware of what the law is now, rather than what the law was before SCOTUS ripped out the unconstitutional parts. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1516 "2014-02-12T16:02:16Z")
So now that all the unconstitutional parts have been ripped out, you’re good with it, right? Passed by Congress, signed by the President, reviewed by the Supreme Court; millions of people with health insurance they didn’t have before, so what’s the problem? ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1517 "2014-02-12T16:22:54Z")
SCOTUS was only asked to review portions of the ACA that were relevant to specific claims brought before it. They found the Medicaid expansion mandate unconstitutional. They found that the individual mandate was unsupportable by the Commerce Clause but left it intact under Congressional authority to tax. They were not asked to, and in fact did not, review the entire law to ensure all parts are constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1518 "2014-02-12T16:26:48Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Passed by Congress, signed by the President, reviewed by the Supreme Court; millions of people with health insurance they didn’t have before, so what’s the problem? That the Democrats get credit for it. That’s all. :rolleyes: Evidence being that anything they trial-balloon to “repeal and replace” it \*with \*is pretty much _the same damn thing_, minus some protections of course. Which makes sense, it having been their own fucking idea to start with. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1519 "2014-02-13T17:29:34Z")
The only bad thing about the act, in my opinion, is having to pay out of pocket instead of having the money come from taxes. I’m sure there are a lot of people like me who are having a hard time making ends meet and can’t really afford a new bill every month, but yet the government says we can and we have to (even with subsidies the remainder can be expensive). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1520 "2014-02-13T21:30:22Z")
Where do you think your taxes come from, if not out of your pocket? Would it be OK if your insurance premiums were deducted instead of billed? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1521 "2014-02-13T23:21:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Where do you think your taxes come from, if not out of your pocket? Would it be OK if your insurance premiums were deducted instead of billed? Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that making it an actual tax would make it more affordable. For example, the money taken out for state, federal, SSI, and so on doesn’t come out to very much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=75) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=77)