# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 77
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1522 "2014-02-14T04:37:05Z")
It would come out to about what you’re paying now. All we’d be doing is taking your money out of your paycheck instead of you having to pay a monthly bill. Except if you can’t pay your taxes, the consequences are much greater than if you can’t pay your premium. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1523 "2014-02-14T06:19:03Z")
I’m not sure about it being the same, but as a payroll tax it would automatically be deducted. No chance of a dilemma, do I pay my insurance bill or get gas and groceries. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1524 "2014-02-14T06:31:35Z")
No dilemma because you don’t get your gas or groceries. ANd it would be the same, since under ACA your premiums are already subsidized. They won’t be subsidized more under a single payer system. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1525 "2014-02-14T14:14:17Z")
Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1526 "2014-02-14T15:28:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No dilemma because you don’t get your gas or groceries. ANd it would be the same, since under ACA your premiums are already subsidized. They won’t be subsidized more under a single payer system. Of course single payer would subsidize more. It would cost less than the ACA because of lowered administrative overhead, removal of insurer profit, and bargaining strength. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1527 "2014-02-14T16:41:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yeah, I mangled that one. If only the right-wing media had your class and honesty and could just say “we misspoke about (insert latest ridiculous outrage).” Alas. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1528 "2014-02-14T23:55:21Z")
My opinion of the ACA has already been enacted. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1529 "2014-02-15T00:48:58Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Of course single payer would subsidize more. It would cost less than the ACA because of lowered administrative overhead, removal of insurer profit, and bargaining strength. Somewhat, yes. Let’s say we got health care spending down to continental European levels of about 11-12% of GDP. That means that Nobody could take his premium and cut it by about 35%. Nice, to be sure, but does it really solve his dilemma of having to choose between expenses? I get the impression he’s expecting a much more dramatic change in how much it will cost him if the insurers were removed from the equation. I’m also skeptical we’d even achieve 35% savings due to expectations Americans have about the health care system. They are already balking at the reduced networks. I doubt they’d accept longer waiting times added onto that to keep costs down. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1530 "2014-02-15T00:50:04Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > If only the right-wing media had your class and honesty and could just say “we misspoke about (insert latest ridiculous outrage).” Alas. In defense of the right-wing media, proponents of the ACA haven’t exactly admitted what they got wrong either. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1531 "2014-02-15T05:31:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Somewhat, yes. Let’s say we got health care spending down to continental European levels of about 11-12% of GDP. That means that Nobody could take his premium and cut it by about 35%. Nice, to be sure, but does it really solve his dilemma of having to choose between expenses? > > I get the impression he’s expecting a much more dramatic change in how much it will cost him if the insurers were removed from the equation. I’m also skeptical we’d even achieve 35% savings due to expectations Americans have about the health care system. They are already balking at the reduced networks. I doubt they’d accept longer waiting times added onto that to keep costs down. Reduced networks would be eliminated or drastically reduced by a single payer system. Also, 35 percent would be awesome. As for waiting times, they may go up, but that’s gonna happen if you have more people access health care. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1532 "2014-02-15T05:44:24Z")
Not if supply increases. THat’s where single payer systems fail. Doctor salaries get low, so bright students find something else to study. Who wants to go school for eight years to make what they could make going to school for four? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1533 "2014-02-15T08:25:28Z")
I’ve always been of the belief that if any major overhaul of the system (and it is needed) will lower doctor pay, then there needs to be in parallel something that will reduce medical school costs as compensation. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1534 "2014-02-15T08:52:25Z")
You’d also have to have to do a tort system similar to what single payer countries have. If your doctor kills you, your family doesn’t get million-dollar settlements, they get an apology. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1535 "2014-02-15T12:41:06Z")
A National Journal article reinforces the point I’ve been making. THe law is not implemented and it won’t be implemented on Obama’s watch: > **[Is the White House Passing Obamacare Woes to Hillary Clinton?](https://www.nationaljournal.com/s/62011/)** > > By rolling back implementation timelines, Obama is making life all the more difficult for Democrats in 2016. The embattled [HealthCare.gov](http://HealthCare.gov) site features a time line for implementation of the Affordable Care Act. It ends in 2015. They wish. If there was any chance that health care reform would soon feel more like the law of the land and less like a piñata that gets refilled and rehung daily, the White House essentially put that notion to rest this week when it punted the deadline for medium-sized employers to comply with the law yet another year. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1536 "2014-02-15T21:29:17Z")
There are no more preexisting conditions to disqualify you and individuals have to comply with the mandate, so even if it’s not completely enacted, it’s at least partially enacted. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1537 "2014-02-19T22:20:33Z")
For followers of this thread, there is an active ACA poll over in [IMHO](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=716120). Vote early and often… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1538 "2014-02-19T22:53:59Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > There are no more preexisting conditions to disqualify you and individuals have to comply with the mandate, so even if it’s not completely enacted, it’s at least partially enacted. THe individual mandate will last exactly as long as it takes for the administration to find out it’s bad for Democrats’ electoral chances. That’s what they did with the employer mandate. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1539 "2014-02-19T23:18:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > THe individual mandate will last exactly as long as it takes for the administration to find out it’s bad for Democrats’ electoral chances. That’s what they did with the employer mandate. So it will probably last forever. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1540 "2014-02-19T23:34:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > it’s bad for Democrats’ electoral chances. Well, friend, how about you just go on thinking that? We’ll \*all \*be happier that way. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1541 "2014-02-20T06:25:22Z")
Ah those narrow networks… > **[Man's Back Surgery On Hold As Doctors Deny Covered California Coverage](https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/mans-back-surgery-on-hold-as-doctors-deny-covered-california-coverage/)** > > He needs his surgery yesterday. But instead of scheduling his date, he and his wife are navigating a confusing maze of doctors and insurance plans. He’s still working, despite the pain. But finding a surgeon to fix his back has turned into a full-time job of its own. “We get this coverage and go to the best doctor to fix Chris, and they tell us we’re out of network,” said his wife Tammy. … Tammy says she finally found an in-network doctor, but the problems don’t end there. We looked him up using the couple’s plan info, and the Blue Cross website shows him as in-network. But that same doctor’s officer told Tammy he won’t see patients with insurance from Covered California. “It’s like we’re a second-class citizen,” she said. “We can’t get the coverage we need.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=76) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=78)