# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 79
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1562 "2014-02-21T18:58:17Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I’m just saying that overall, it’s not ACA that caused this all, it’s just how insurance works sometimes. So it is just a coincidence that Covered CA policies’ holders cannot find doctors, but the same exact insurance companies’ clients that are outside of Obamacare can? ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1563 "2014-02-21T19:02:19Z")
**Terr** , narrow networks are a function of _health insurance._ They are not a product of, nor were they caused by, the Affordable Care Act. I agree that the problems which these folks are confronting are unfortunate, but that’s just it: They are problems of _health insurance_ that these individuals will inevitably solve. Also, for all the cry over narrow networks, it should be pointed out that conservatives have been proponents of these exact kinds of policies as mechanisms to drive down premiums for years. Now that some of these plans are in ACA exchanges, though, they must be inherently bad. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1564 "2014-02-21T19:03:55Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > **Terr** , narrow networks are a function of _health insurance._ They are not a product of, nor were they caused by, the Affordable Care Act. I know. So it is just a coincidence then that Obamacare networks are much narrower than the same insurance companies’ outside-Obamacare networks, right? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1565 "2014-02-21T21:58:45Z")
[Here](http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-02-20/obamacare-investors-bet-billions-the-aca-will-succeed) is an interesting take on the ACA - the investing class seems to be bullish on it succeeding. An investment firm, Motif Investments, has created two mutual funds. One of firms expected to benefit if the ACA succeeds, the other if it fails. > [@](#): > > What’s most striking isn’t the performance of the two funds, but where investors are choosing to place their money. “We don’t have convictions or views on the law itself,” says Walia. “We give you both sides of the equation.” But one is clearly more popular: He says Motif investors have bet 45 times more money on Obamacare’s success than on its failure. > > This trend reflects the beliefs of the investment community, where—unlike in Washington—the permanence of the health-care law is taken for granted and the prospect of repeal is given practically no credence. “Investors can’t imagine a scenario where the changes the Affordable Care Act started will be repealed and taken away,” says Bob Kocher, a partner specializing in health care and IT at the venture capital firm Venrock. “There’s a ton of money flowing into things that help health-care [companies] take advantage of the insurance market changes, the coverage expansion, the payment model changes, and the data liberation that are derivative of the law.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1566 "2014-02-22T05:07:22Z")
What they mean is that no matter what happens, access to insurance wil increase, and that will mean more revenue for insurance companies. This is true whether ACA stays in place, or is repealed and replaced, or even if it’s merely gutted. there is no scenario in which insurance companies do not win. In other news, supporters of ACA owe critics another apology. Medicare Advantage cuts are actually real, and once again, they called us liars during the election campaign for pointing it out: > **[Cuts may be in store for Medicare Advantage plans](https://news.yahoo.com/cuts-may-store-medicare-advantage-230136201.html;_ylt=A0LEV1RhMAhTqggAmQpXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0YTliZm1uBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDM2OV8x)** > > Cuts are on the table next year for Medicare Advantage plans, the Obama administration said Friday. The politically dicey move affecting a private insurance alternative highly popular with seniors immediately ... ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1567 "2014-02-22T05:11:52Z")
From the news story: \*\*Insurers say they will be forced to pass on higher costs to seniors or cut benefits if their rates are reduced, and some plans may drop out altogether. The impact could vary significantly around the country. The industry says the cuts come as Medicare Advantage reductions programmed under the health care law are ramping up. The law sought to compensate for prior years in which the plans were overpaid. But it also includes a new tax on insurers, so industry officials fear the combined impact will be much higher.\*\* That was some ingenious lie supporters of ACA told. “We’re not cutting benefits. We’re cutting payments to providers, and THEY are then cutting benefits. But see, we’re not cutting benefits.” ---
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1568 "2014-02-22T05:20:30Z")
I’m pretty much against the idea of being forced to buy something that is outrageously expensive. Great for insurance companies. Perhaps a good time to invest in health care. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1569 "2014-02-22T05:33:13Z")
As an investor, I’m staying away. Too much uncertainty and as the article posted by jasg says, the big money is already invested in success, which means success is already priced in. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1570 "2014-02-22T09:08:35Z")
Republicans gain one Democratic vote for repeal in the Senate: Manchin. > **[Manchin: I’d vote to repeal ObamaCare](https://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/198907-manchin-id-vote-to-repeal-obamacare/)** > > Later, in an email to The Hill, Manchin said he has “never supported” repeal. REpublicans would need 67 votes to override a Presidential veto. They’d have to either win 13 seats or get a few more Democratic votes. Very, very difficult, but not impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1571 "2014-02-22T11:38:13Z")
The **adaher** curse strikes again: [Joe Manchin Does Not Support Full Repeal Of Obamacare](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/21/joe-manchin-obamacare_n_4832099.html) > [@](#): > > Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) quickly walked back remarks he made on Friday morning that he would support a full repeal of the Affordable Care Act. > > In a statement to The Huffington Post, the West Virginia Democrat said he “never supported repealing” President Obama’s signature health care law. Is there anything that doesn’t turn to shit when \*\*adaher \*\*touches it? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1572 "2014-02-22T11:55:06Z")
Hey, he said what he said. Not my fault he flip-flopped. It is interesting though that he pulled the classic Blue Dog bait and switch: he told a home audience he’d repeal Obamacare, then called the Huffington Post and said the opposite. Despite the internet, these old guys still think they can say one thing back home and another thing in DC. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1573 "2014-02-22T12:12:49Z")
In any case, he’s still a vote to delay the individual mandate and reduce the employer mandate to full time employees only. That’s useful. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1574 "2014-02-22T12:16:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In any case, he’s still a vote to delay the individual mandate and reduce the employer mandate to full time employees only. Until he’s not. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1575 "2014-02-22T13:09:34Z")
If it depends on his fear level, then a strong performance in the 2014 elections for the GOP would bring him in line. Besides, the guy is pretty close to a Republican as it is. Shouldn’t be hard to flip him if the GOP takes the majority. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1576 "2014-02-22T14:01:13Z")
Man, the **adaher** delusion train is just fun to watch. No, the ACA is not going to get repealed under Obama. Not realistic, not going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1577 "2014-02-22T18:09:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Man, the **adaher** delusion train is just fun to watch. > > No, the ACA is not going to get repealed under Obama. Not realistic, not going to happen. I will go one better. It will not get repealed, even if the Republicans take the Whitehouse in 2016. Tweaked, yes. Improved, yes. Repealed, NO. (If anything, under a Republican administration, the insurers and big pharma will get an even better deal out of health care reform) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1578 "2014-02-22T18:51:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Hey, he said what he said. Not my fault he flip-flopped. > > It is interesting though that he pulled the classic Blue Dog bait and switch: he told a home audience he’d repeal Obamacare, then called the Huffington Post and said the opposite. Despite the internet, these old guys still think they can say one thing back home and another thing in DC. From your own link: > [@](#): > > In an email to The Hill, Manchin said that despite his comments, he does not support repealing the law. > “I have never supported repealing the Affordable Care Act because I came to Washington to find solutions to our country’s problems,” he said. “We cannot go back to the days when millions of Americans were uninsured and nearly twenty percent of our GDP was spent on healthcare, while only being ranked 43rd in the world in health and wellness outcomes.” > > Still, Manchin said the law has “many flaws,” and that those parts that can’t be fixed and should be eliminated. > > “We should be working together to identify which parts of the law are broken and need to be fixed,” he continued. “We may learn that some parts of the law can’t be repaired, and we should eliminate those parts entirely. I wasn’t here when this bill passed, and the easiest thing I could do as a senator is to vote no on everything, but the people of West Virginia sent me here to solve problems, and I will continue to work to solve the problems in the health care bill.” Your own link contradicts it’s own headline and lead-in. I’m not surprised that you’re wrong yet again. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1579 "2014-02-23T04:18:41Z")
Jasg, that’s why I asked the question: if Republicans “repeal” Obamacare but replace it with something that has a lot of what Obamacare had(such as their alternative plan), then do you call that a victory? ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1580 "2014-02-23T14:31:07Z")
**Adaher** , Republicans will never repeal Obamacare, nor will they ever do anything at all with their “replacement” plan. Seriously, the GOP has no desire to ever address health care reform, and their “replacement” bullshit exists entirely in a hypothetical universe purely as a mechanism to criticize the ACA. Any alternative approach from the GOP should be called out for the joke that it is, given that no conservative politician in this country would ever enact any of those policies. Nice try though. Also, since **Terr** has apparently resorted to ACA-judgement-by-anecdote, here’s a story about a man [whose life was literally saved by the ACA.](http://fox4kc.com/2014/02/13/man-with-a-new-healthy-heart-says-obamacare-saved-his-life/) Have fun running against that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1581 "2014-02-23T15:46:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Jasg, that’s why I asked the question: if Republicans “repeal” Obamacare but replace it with something that has a lot of what Obamacare had(such as their alternative plan), then do you call that a victory? Do _you_? Why? If you consider it a victory if all you’ve fundamentally changed is to take Obama’s name off it, are you telling us that’s what is really important to you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=78) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=80)