# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1662 "2014-03-04T14:07:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It is the main problem if you’re looking to make people buy health insurance. According to the CBO and real world results we’ve seen, a very large portion of the uninsured are ignoring the mandate. > > A “universal” health care program that leaves tens of millions uninsured has failed on its own terms. Fewer people are uncovered than before. The numbers are changing for the better each month. Virtually everyone of the relatively small number who lost or had their coverage changed because of ACA provisions still was able to get coverage later. You continuously shift the goalposts so that your specific “failure” definition just happens to apply to present circumstances, even though the numbers continue to change, and in the right direction. If the ACA is still around in 5 or 10 years, and there are still tens of millions uninsured, then I’ll agree it failed at least in its goal of providing near-universal coverage. But why do you insist on calling it a failure _just at this moment_, when it’s helping millions and millions more each month? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1663 "2014-03-04T14:29:13Z")
Because it’s also hurting millions. ACA plans are not always superior to the old plans. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1664 "2014-03-04T14:32:12Z")
BTW, here’s something I didn’t know about: > **[Christian alternative to ObamaCare growing fast as deadline nears](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/christian-alternative-to-obamacare-growing-fast-as-deadline-nears)** > > With just weeks left to sign up for insurance on HealthCare.gov, a growing number of people are opting to enroll in a Christian alternative to traditional health insurance. Turns out there is a Christian alternative to ACA, and it’s legal under ACA. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1665 "2014-03-04T14:54:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If it was for overhead, benefits wouldn’t be getting cut, now would they? Sigh … okay, what makes you think that’s happening? > [@](#): > > You’re right that the Ryan budget also cuts Medicare Advantage. And uses the funds to strengthen Medicare, whereas the Democrats used it to pay for ACA. As futile a gesture as this is: Cite? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1666 "2014-03-04T14:56:57Z")
The money goes for deficit reduction, which strengthens Medicare in the same way that Clinton’s surpluses strengthened Social Security. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1667 "2014-03-04T15:03:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The money goes for deficit reduction, which strengthens Medicare in the same way that Clinton’s surpluses strengthened Social Security. Or, to look at it another way, the GOP plan cuts benefits without replacing them with anything, disadvantaging many, whereas ACA provides some benefit in return to the disadvantaged (which will itself cut the deficit according to CBO projections). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1668 "2014-03-04T15:09:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Because it’s also hurting millions. ACA plans are not always superior to the old plans. Cite that it’s “hurting millions”? ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1669 "2014-03-04T15:25:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The money goes for deficit reduction, which strengthens Medicare in the same way that Clinton’s surpluses strengthened Social Security. Took a bit to find an article from the era, [but I think this is what adaher means](http://money.cnn.com/1999/06/28/economy/clinton/): > [@](#): > > NEW YORK (CNNfn) - President Clinton on Monday proposed paying off the national debt by 2015 after issuing a new budget outlook that adds $1 trillion more to the overall budget surplus over the next 15 years. OK, so that 20th Century article was a while ago… Anyway, I think this is what Adaher is talking about… > [@](#): > > Clinton said the White House now expects the government to run a $5 billion surplus in fiscal 2000 **excluding** money from the Social Security surpluses, the first such surplus in four decades. > “I am pleased that Republicans and Democrats in Congress have agreed to use the Social Security surpluses to reduce the national debt, but we must go forward and achieve an even stronger lockbox than (the) one proposed by Congress,” Clinton said. “Social Security taxes should be saved for Social Security, period.” Social Security lockbox - remember when they mocked Al Gore for that… > [@](#): > > If lawmakers heed the president’s call for all Social Security payroll tax revenues to be used to shore up that program, U.S. officials said this would extend Social Security’s solvency by about 20 years to 2053. Medicare solvancy is mentioned, but not tied directly to deficit reduction: > [@](#): > > They said proposals Clinton will unveil on Tuesday would extend Medicare’s solvency to at least 2025. BTW, presented without further comment… > [@](#): > > The centerpiece of Clinton’s Medicare reform plan, which will be unveiled Tuesday, is a proposal to offer prescription drug coverage to all 39 million Medicare recipients. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1670 "2014-03-05T02:27:28Z")
> [@SirRay](#): > > Anyway, I think this is what Adaher is talking about… > [@](#): > > Clinton said the White House now expects the government to run a $5 billion surplus in fiscal 2000 excluding money from the Social Security surpluses, Who knows what he was talking about? But this quote is about discretionary accounts having a surplus on their own, without SS cash counted. SS had a surplus every year of Clinton’s presidency. Not sure what Adaher was trying to say. The lockbox thing is sheer stupidity. SS funds are not used for other programs. The cash was, of course, but it went with an IOU (government bonds, actually). It is supposed to be paid back to SS later. Now, whether Congress will honor that is another issue, but using SS cash to pay bills now is not the same thing as using it up for good. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1671 "2014-03-05T02:30:14Z")
And, away it goes… “Poof! The GOP’s Disappearing Promise To Vote To Replace Obamacare” [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/gop-disappearing-promise-to-replace-obamacare](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/gop-disappearing-promise-to-replace-obamacare) ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1672 "2014-03-06T15:20:26Z")
[Sub-par pre-ACA policies to be extended throughout the rest of Obama’s term](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/obamacare-affordable-care-act-extension-104307.html?hp=f3) I can’t say that this is altogether surprising given the political dynamics of the “keep your plan” nonsense. The article also points out that the number of individuals that this effects is becoming vanishingly small; honestly, at this point, I think that we should all just expect these old policies to naturally die off as people actively migrate towards ACA-compliant plans. What do you guys think? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1673 "2014-03-06T17:41:01Z")
It’s not small if you count the employer plans. He had to head off massive cancellations in October which would have occurred. And it’s not nonsense. If the public had known they couldn’t keep their plans, ACA would not be law today. Personally, I think this kind of massive fraud should be actionable in court. Laws sold on lies should be overturned by courts if people are substantially harmed by them, thus giving them standing to sue. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1674 "2014-03-06T18:56:20Z")
So you’re off the Medicare Advantage cuts kick now, are you? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1675 "2014-03-06T19:22:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s not small if you count the employer plans. He had to head off massive cancellations in October which would have occurred. > > And it’s not nonsense. If the public had known they couldn’t keep their plans, ACA would not be law today. Personally, I think this kind of massive fraud should be actionable in court. Laws sold on lies should be overturned by courts if people are substantially harmed by them, thus giving them standing to sue. Piffle. Many of the plans people were upset about losing were piece of shit plans. So they have to at some point upgrade to ACA-compliant plans that actually provide coverage. My heart bleeds for those poor souls. Of course, some may pay more. Big deal, they’re getting more. The notion of suing due to a law “sold on lies” is silly. If it was true, every Iraq War casualty family should sue Dick Cheney. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1676 "2014-03-06T19:47:14Z")
What do we do about having a watered-down bill because of lies told \*about \*it? Where’s the outrage about death panels, **adaher**? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1677 "2014-03-07T05:34:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So you’re off the Medicare Advantage cuts kick now, are you? 🙂 Nope, that was also a breaking of democratic promises that people could keep their plans if they liked them. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1678 "2014-03-07T05:37:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What do we do about having a watered-down bill because of lies told \*about \*it? Where’s the outrage about death panels, **adaher**? They left the death panels out because of Sarah Palin? Yay! I get what you’re saying, my flipness aside, but the bill wasn’t watered down because of lies. It was watered down because Democrats had to not commit political suicide. So they watered it down, and only Obama’s ass was saved, mainly because he made sure nothing bad happened before Nov. 2012. Now bad stuff has happened, so we get to see how voters react. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1679 "2014-03-07T12:21:17Z")
Looks like the President is backing down on the risk corridors as well: [http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-03-06/the-white-house-promises-there-will-be-no-obamacare-bailout?campaign\_id=yhoo](http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-03-06/the-white-house-promises-there-will-be-no-obamacare-bailout?campaign_id=yhoo) This is a law that will never be fully implemented. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1680 "2014-03-14T02:33:33Z")
And now bye bye to the individual mandate: [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-13/millions-may-avoid-obamacare-penalty-as-deadline-looms.html?cmpid=yhoo](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-13/millions-may-avoid-obamacare-penalty-as-deadline-looms.html?cmpid=yhoo) ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1681 "2014-03-14T02:38:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And now bye bye to the individual mandate: > > [Millions May Avoid Obamacare Penalty as Deadline Looms - Bloomberg](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-13/millions-may-avoid-obamacare-penalty-as-deadline-looms.html?cmpid=yhoo) Can you point out where that article says there is no mandate? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=83) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=85)