# What is your opinion on Cesar Milan:Dog Whisperer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 9, 2008, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586 "2008-04-09T11:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BluePitbull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@BluePitbull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BluePitbull)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/1 "2008-04-09T11:38:57Z")
I have not seen this show(no TV ☹ ), but I hear that his methods are controversial. Any opinions from experianced dog trainers or dog owners who have tried his method? ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/2 "2008-04-09T12:02:06Z")
I’ve watched the show on several occassions and can’t think of anything remotely controversial about his techniques? ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/3 "2008-04-09T12:13:53Z")
Can you expand a little? What have you heard is controversial? ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/4 "2008-04-09T13:33:15Z")
Take this with a grain of salt as I heard it from a Neighbor who is in the dog training business who knows people, who knows people…etc. But, off camera it is said that Caesar beats the dogs to show submission. Personally, I would find that hard to beleive that he could get away with something like that as his on camera discussion about dogs/pack mentality/control seems to be spot on. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/5 "2008-04-09T13:35:54Z")
From the wiki article on Cesar Milan: > [@](#): > > Cesar has several critics. Despite his results, some view his methods as inhumane. Among his methods are quick leash corrections, quick assertive touches, and walks to drain energy. One controversial method he has made popular is the “alpha roll over” where he physically rolls a dog on its back. Animal behavior expert Patricia McConnell writes in her book The Other End of The Leash, “Well-socialized, healthy dogs don’t pin other dogs to the ground. . . . Within their social framework, you’re acting like a lunatic.” (p. 138) > > Dr. Nicholas Dodman, the director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at the Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine of Tufts University, has said “Cesar Millan’s methods are based on flooding and punishment. The results, though immediate, will be only transitory. His methods are misguided, outmoded, in some cases dangerous, and often inhumane. You would not want to be a dog under his sphere of influence. The sad thing is that the public does not recognize the error of his ways.” [15] (Link is not valid). In a February 23, 2006, New York Times article, Dr. Dodman says of Millan’s show, “My college thinks it is a travesty. We’ve written to National Geographic Channel and told them they have put dog training back 20 years.”[9] > > Jean Donaldson, the San Francisco SPCA Director of The Academy for Dog Trainers states, “Practices such as physically confronting aggressive dogs and the use of choke collars for fearful dogs are outrageous by even the most diluted dog training standards. A profession that has been making steady gains in its professionalism, technical sophistication and humane standards has been greatly set back. I have long been deeply troubled by the popularity of Mr. Millan as so many will emulate him. To co-opt a word like whispering for arcane, violent and technically unsound practice is unconscionable.” [10] > > On September 6, 2006, the American Humane Association issued a press release condemning Millan’s tactics as “inhumane, outdated, and improper” and called on the National Geographic Channel to cease airing the program immediately. [11] > > In October 2006, the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants wrote a letter to the National Geographic Channel regarding concerns “that the program may lead children to engage in unsafe behaviors.” The Association called for a change in the program’s rating of TV-G. [16] > > January 2008, [DogTime.com](http://DogTime.com) interviewed professional trainers associated with the APDT, Association of Pet Dog Trainers, and although these trainers pointed out that Cesar’s TV show works with dogs needing rehabilitation that his methods may not be long term solutions. Trish King, Director of the Animal Behavior and Training Department at the Marin Humane Society observes: “In some of his shows, Cesar tells the owner how ‘calm and submissive’ a dog is, when to me, the dog looks shut down and fearful.” [17] Which, I think, frankly, comes from a bunch of anthropomorphizing wanks. The one part I agree with is the alpha roll - while those can be great, they can also be dangerous if you don’t know what you’re doing or have a good rapport with the dog. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/6 "2008-04-09T13:37:02Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/7 "2008-04-09T13:39:12Z")
Here’s what one member had to say in an old thread- > [@](#): > > I haven’t seen the show. (WE don’t get that channel, or I certainly would!) I am, however, big into dog training, and am an obedience instructor. I am on several training lists and message boards. > > What I am hearing from the pros (and these are people who have been in the business for decades, and have had their OWN shows) is that Milan is basically BSing on his show. He is having a lot of problems that they edit out, and using methods that he isn’t talking about. Take his stuff with a grain of salt… > > Another thing to think about - the more you regularly exercise a dog, the more stamina you build up in that dog, the more exercise it needs to remain relaxed. I wouldn’t run a dog for hours unless I was in training for sledding or some other sport that requires that stamina. If you can’t gain calm behavior and work with your dog without it being physically exhausted, you need to try another tack. > > Some of the other ideas expressed in this post are pretty valid, although they have been around for decades and are not his brainchild. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7321845](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7321845) ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/8 "2008-04-09T13:54:55Z")
Well, I hired a dog trainer for a while who I really, really respected. (In other words, he wasn’t afraid to work with my dog. And we got great results.) He thought Milan was very self-aggrandizing and that they cut a lot of stuff out and only run the successes, etc. He also said that a good trainer would never roll a dog like that - if you trade an aggressive dog for an overly submissive dog you haven’t really accomplished anything, and the dog is going to pee on your floor or something. He focused a lot on letting the dog _and_ the owner win - and let me tell you, this guy was impressive. Cost a fortune but worth his weight in gold. The only reason I stopped working with him is 1) we went on vacation and interrupted my schedule and we never got around to calling him again, 2) he was very expensive, and 3) Haplo’s going so deaf that it was hard to work on the training. ETA - I don’t know if it makes a difference, but my trainer’s background was in police and protection dog training. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/9 "2008-04-09T13:57:08Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] …Which, I think, frankly, comes from a bunch of anthropomorphizing wanks. The one part I agree with is the alpha roll - while those can be great, they can also be dangerous if you don’t know what you’re doing or have a good rapport with the dog. [/QUOTE] There are apparently real controversies in the dog training world. To many trainers, Cesar is the competition. Jean Donaldson is one of his more vocal critics. But her book also has [critics on Amazon](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1888047054/ref=s9subs_c2_at2-rfc_p-2814_g2_47_20_11_10?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=09CVWQENRMMW7TNNX5T3&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=278240301&pf_rd_i=507846)… ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/10 "2008-04-09T14:04:30Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] There are apparently real controversies in the dog training world. To many trainers, Cesar is the competition. Jean Donaldson is one of his more vocal critics. But her book also has [critics on Amazon](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1888047054/ref=s9subs_c2_at2-rfc_p-2814_g2_47_20_11_10?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=09CVWQENRMMW7TNNX5T3&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=278240301&pf_rd_i=507846)… [/QUOTE] Oh sure, I don’t doubt that. But since the OP asks for my opinion on the television show _Cesar Milan: Dog Whispere_r, and I don’t know Cesar Milan off camera, I can only answer to the show. And I think what he does _on the show_ is pretty great. If nothing else, I like that he’s teaching people we can’t think of dogs as furry humans; their brains, social structure and healthy expectations are totally different than ours. I especially love how he shows people how their “soothing” of anxious dogs or yelling at barking dogs is actually \*reinforcing \*the behavior, not extinguishing it. I’ve gotten so much mileage out of those two pieces of information with dogs of my friends and family. (I miss having dogs, but my landlord won’t allow it.) And I don’t think the take-home lesson is that you have to exhaust a dog to make it obey, but I think he’s absolutely right that 90% of people underestimate how much physical exercise a dog needs to be healthy and happy. Which, I suppose is not unexpected, since 90% of people underestimate how much physical exercise \*people \*need to be healthy and happy! ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/11 "2008-04-09T14:04:30Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Which, I think, frankly, comes from a bunch of anthropomorphizing wanks. The one part I agree with is the alpha roll - while those can be great, they can also be dangerous if you don’t know what you’re doing or have a good rapport with the dog. [/QUOTE] I don’t know about the others, and an anecdote is not data, but I had a college zoology course in the ethics and philosophy of human/animal interrelationships (farming, pets, hunting, zoos, etc.) with Patricia McConnell and saw her as a very thoughtful, scientific-minded professor. And on preview I see she was the one who disliked his use of the alpha roll, which you weren’t necessarily fond of, so perhaps this is beside the point! ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/12 "2008-04-09T14:08:44Z")
Just a guess, but I would be willing to put down a lot of money that anyone suggesting his methods are “controversial” are the same people who insist that the only “humane” way to train a dog is with a clicker and a pocket full of treats and calls anyone using a training collar an abuser. ETA: and on posting, I see the list of quotes from the Wiki page and see that I’m right. Along with **WotNot** I do disagree with his use of the alpha-roll. Cesar Milan uses traditional training methods and is very, very good at what he does. Many of his techniques come more or less straight out of the Koehler books and his ability to read dogs is phenomenal. I think very highly of him for putting traditional and effective dog training in the spotlight. Clicker training and the like are fantastic for some dogs and some trainers, but not for everyone, and _any_ “dog trainer” who tries to suggest that a training method that neglects correction is appropriate for **all** dogs is completely incompetent. The thing about expert-level dog trainers who are working with really incorrigible dogs is that, occasionally, you’re going to come across real troublemakers–dogs who need a serious test of wills and a “come to Jesus” moment before they’ll allow themselves to be trained. If you have a dog that’s bound to maul or kill someone if it doesn’t get under control, I’d rather a good trainer go toe to toe in an ugly scene than to necessarily euthanize the dog, which is what the PETA crowd would prefer, or --god forbid-- have the owner keep doing what they’re doing and get someone hurt or killed. None of this means “abuse” or “harm” but sometimes it does mean heavy-duty corrections, and you can sure bet that’s happening off camera. Everyone wants to see the maniac killer dog go from foaming at the mouth to heeling smartly and snuggling on the couch with just a well-timed treat, but I guarantee there’s some backstory there that some folks would find distasteful. About the other poster who said “if you can’t gain calm behavior and work with your dog without it being physically exhausted, you need to try another tack.” I’d respond to that with a dog training cliche: “A tired dog is a good dog”. One of the biggest things I cheer him on for is his active demonstration of lots of exercise for large dogs. I firmly believe that if every dog got a substantial amount of exercise and a little basic training, the vast majority of behavioral issues would disappear. It seems like your average pet owner with behavioral problems nearly always have dogs who are perpetually confined to a home or yard with a stroll around the neighborhood at best for stimulation and exercise. If your dog is barking or chewing or digging or any number of other things, problems such as that can very often be solved simply with routine physical and mental exertion. Again, any dog trainer that would argue that point is less than fully competent. I, too, am a big dog training geek that hangs out on all the major training lists and I know what those folks are like, especially when it comes to discussing a trainer who’s had some public success or one who uses methods with which they personally disagree. With all due respect to that poster and as I think I’ve expressed, sure there are things happening not being shown on TV. Sure his methods are cribbed–all dog trainers use other peoples’ methods. We as a species have been training dogs for a long time, there aren’t really any novelties in technique anymore. He’s not even the best traditional dog trainer out there, though he is talented, but he’s cute and charismatic and makes for a good show. What I applaud him for is his success at putting traditional dog training in the spotlight. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve been talking dogs with who’ve mentioned seeing his show and a new interest in and understanding of their own dogs. A friend with a backyard-parked rottweiler is now going on regular walks and demonstrating knowledge of alpha and pack behaviors. Other folks I know have changed how they interact with their herd of ankle-biters, who have as a result become slightly more pleasant. He’s not a magic dog whisperer, he’s just a good classic dog trainer. Like I said, his real success is in the promotion of sensible and accessible dog training to the general public. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/13 "2008-04-09T14:11:02Z")
Do the owners watch the entire process, even the stuff that doesn’t make it on the show? Because if they do, I find it hard to believe a loving owner would let their dog get abused just to get on TV… And if they don’t watch the process, how does anyone know that his methods include abuse? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/14 "2008-04-09T14:13:06Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Oh sure, I don’t doubt that. But since the OP asks for my opinion on the television show _Cesar Milan: Dog Whispere_r, and I don’t know Cesar Milan off camera, I can only answer to the show. And I think what he does _on the show_ is pretty great. If nothing else, I like that he’s teaching people we can’t think of dogs as furry humans; their brains, social structure and healthy expectations are totally different than ours. I especially love how he shows people how their “soothing” of anxious dogs or yelling at barking dogs is actually \*reinforcing \*the behavior, not extinguishing it. I’ve gotten so much mileage out of those two pieces of information with dogs of my friends and family. (I miss having dogs, but my landlord won’t allow it.) And I don’t think the take-home lesson is that you have to exhaust a dog to make it obey, but I think he’s absolutely right that 90% of people underestimate how much physical exercise a dog needs to be healthy and happy. Which, I suppose is not unexpected, since 90% of people underestimate how much physical exercise \*people \*need to be healthy and happy! [/QUOTE] I don’t even have a dog. If I had one that needed training, I’d hire a trainer–not use a book or a TV show. But Cesar is entertaining. And he spends lots of time training the **owners**. I’ve known several dogs driven nuts by lack of exercise. Some breeds need more than others. I love Border Collies–but won’t get one unless I retire to raise sheep. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/15 "2008-04-09T14:18:21Z")
I like him. He makes sense to me. The whole idea, as I understand it, is for the master to think like a dog and be the alpha. It seems to me that if you want a dog who will be a loyal, loving, and well behaved pet, friendly towards your environment and friends, that’d be the way to go. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/16 "2008-04-09T14:27:25Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] I don’t even have a dog. If I had one that needed training, I’d hire a trainer–not use a book or a TV show. But Cesar is entertaining. And he spends lots of time training the **owners**. [/quote] Which is really 80% of the process 😉 [QUOTE=Bridget Burke] I’ve known several dogs driven nuts by lack of exercise. Some breeds need more than others. I love Border Collies–but won’t get one unless I retire to raise sheep. [/QUOTE] Right. I don’t know how many of my friends and acquaintances have dogs that dogs that seem to exist solely to decorate the back yard, then seem puzzled or annoyed that the dog isn’t well-behaved enough to be in the house or around guests. I even have a relative with a rottie and a yorkie. The rottweiler lives her life as an exile in the back yard with her nose pressed against the glass door, watching the family, while the little dog sleeps in bed with the kid and lives underfoot. She’s not allowed in the house because she’s rambunctious and knocks things (and people) over. They go out on walks with the yorkie but don’t take the rottweiler because no one can control her, she drags them down the street. ☹ I’ll even say it again: any “dog trainer” that decries Milan’s promotion of regular exercise for large dogs should hang up their leash and find another profession. ---
**Author:** ![Barrels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@Barrels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrels)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/17 "2008-04-09T14:38:47Z")
I dislike Cesar, alot. He has some good points but for the average dog owner watching him, many of his ideas are impractical at best and at worst dangerous. I agree that a tired dog is a happy dog, however most of us can’t spend 40 hours a week running our dogs. I also think that many of his techniques are dog bites waiting to happen. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/18 "2008-04-09T14:44:48Z")
[QUOTE=Barrels] I agree that a tired dog is a happy dog, however most of us can’t spend 40 hours a week running our dogs. [/QUOTE] I don’t want to quibble over the hours, but if you can’t spend whatever amount of time you need to in order to keep your dog healthy, then you should not own that dog. Pugs need about 4 minutes of exercise a day. Border collies probably need a good 6 hours. There’s a dog at every level in between, and it’s something a conscientious dog owner takes into account before choosing a dog that’s right for them and their lifestyle. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/19 "2008-04-09T15:06:58Z")
[QUOTE=Barrels] I agree that a tired dog is a happy dog, however most of us can’t spend 40 hours a week running our dogs. [/QUOTE] Are you actively suggesting that Cesar Milan advises you run your dog for forty hours a week, or that Cesar Milan runs his clients’ dogs for forty hours a week? Gosh, on that schedule, he’d only have time to train one dog at a time! ---
**Author:** ![bbs2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@bbs2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbs2k)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2008, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586/20 "2008-04-09T15:33:14Z")
I love the show, and I’m not even a dog owner. His methods make sense to me too. Still, I start every episode seeing the problem dog and think, well how the heck is he going to fix this one? And you know what, the exact same way he fixes them all. _Exercise, Discipline & Affection._ And that’s not a critique of an obtuse style, just praise for a system that seems to consistently work. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-opinion-on-cesar-milan-dog-whisperer/444586.md?page=2)