# What is your view of doctor Miguel Echeverry book on subculture? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444 "2017-09-16T01:39:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/1 "2017-09-16T01:39:36Z")
What is your view of doctor Miguel Echeverry book on subculture? Doctor Miguel Echeverry seems to be arguing that subculture is a mental illness. That hippies and punks is a mental illness. Could he be confusing social deviance vs counterculture? Because counterculture don’t like the culture we have but want to replace it with their own subculture. Where deviance does not want to replace any culture. And my understanding deviance is pat of DSM where counterculture is not. The doctor Miguel Echeverry goes on to arguing the madness of subcultures like hippies and punks. Could he be confusing social deviance vs counterculture? With out posting a link to his books just quoting part of it it well goes on to say. > [@](#): > > In 1972, Colombian psychiatrist Miguel Echeverry published a book arguing that hippies were not a youth subculture but the expression of a distinct mental illness that should be treated aggressively lest it spread through the population like a contagion. > > ``` > The true hippy is an individual with a frank disposition to hereditary psychopathology, who has abandoned himself, has totally neglected his hygiene and self-presentation, has let his hair and beard grow, is dressed bizarrely, eccentrically and ridiculously, wears a multitude of rings, necklaces, beads and other extravagances, is opposed to all defined and purposeful social and family structures now and in the future, rejects productive and redeeming work, irresponsibly and cynically promotes the cult of free love, aggressively promotes contempt for moral, social and religious conventions, preaches paradoxically about the abolition of private property, harmfully drugs them self with marijuana, LSD, amphetamines, hypnotics, mescaline, psylocybin, sedatives and heroin etc to rebelliously and insanely avoid the sad realities of life. > > ``` Could he be confusing\*\* social deviance \*\*vs counterculture like hippies, punk or gutter punk? Because counterculture don’t like the culture we have but want to replace it with their own subculture. Where deviance does not want to replace any culture. Also I’m not aware rebelliously being part of DSM. I also read article saying lead poisoning was causing massive of criminals, social deviance, drug use and addiction and may be counterculture. And now that lead poisoning is down so is every thing else. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/2 "2017-09-16T16:23:43Z")
You want our views on a crackpot psychologist’s 1972 book in Spanish? Well I guess it’s possible someone here has read it or can find it in their library. [I mean, this guy did](https://mindhacks.com/2010/12/23/treating-the-madness-of-the-hippies/): > [@](#): > > The book contains not a single reference to any scientific or clinical study, although is happy to wax lyrical about the subgroups of the hippy mental illness. > [@](#): > > The image on the right is from one of the adverts in the book, all of which advertise the drug Lucidril as a ‘treatment’ for hippies, and it’s no surprise that the book was sponsored by the makers of the medication. And maybe crackpot is wrong. Maybe pharma shill is more correct. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/3 "2017-09-16T16:27:01Z")
> [@naita](#): > > You want our views on a crackpot psychologist’s 1972 book in Spanish? Don’t spoil the ending, I just started it last week! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/4 "2017-09-16T16:44:32Z")
> [@naita](#): > > You want our views on a crackpot psychologist’s 1972 book in Spanish? > > Well I guess it’s possible someone here has read it or can find it in their library. [I mean, this guy did](https://mindhacks.com/2010/12/23/treating-the-madness-of-the-hippies/): > And maybe crackpot is wrong. Maybe pharma shill is more correct. A drug to cure hippies of hippiness? How ironic. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/5 "2017-09-16T17:11:11Z")
What is my view of doctor Miguel Echeverry’s book on subculture? I don’t think all the evidence is in, yet. In the meantime, I’ll keep taking my daily dose of Lucidril, just in case. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/6 "2017-09-16T17:17:02Z")
- ‘…the expression of a distinct mental illness that should be treated aggressively lest it spread through the population like a contagion.’ \*I like the idea that mental illness is something catching. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/7 "2017-09-16T17:36:07Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > What is your view of doctor Miguel Echeverry book on subculture? Doctor Miguel Echeverry seems to be arguing that subculture is a mental illness. That hippies and punks is a mental illness. Come on, sweat. This is just too silly to even merit asking. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/8 "2017-09-16T20:17:03Z")
> [@naita](#): > > You want our views on a crackpot psychologist’s 1972 book in Spanish? > > Well I guess it’s possible someone here has read it or can find it in their library. [I mean, this guy did](https://mindhacks.com/2010/12/23/treating-the-madness-of-the-hippies/): > And maybe crackpot is wrong. Maybe pharma shill is more correct. I have not read his book and don’t know much about him or his views or what he is pushing. All I know is he is probably confusing social deviance vs counterculture. Well social deviance is a mental illness where counterculture is not . ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/9 "2017-09-17T02:52:14Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > I have not read his book and don’t know much about him or his views or what he is pushing. All I know is he is probably confusing social deviance vs counterculture. > > Well social deviance is a mental illness where counterculture is not . You haven’t read this book which is nearly half a century old, almost completely forgotten, about a social movement in a country where it barely happened, written by a now entirely unknown person–and you want to discuss it? ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/10 "2017-09-18T01:00:14Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > You haven’t read this book which is nearly half a century old, almost completely forgotten, about a social movement in a country where it barely happened, written by a now entirely unknown person–and you want to discuss it? I think too many members here are too caught up with doctor Miguel Echeverry work (crackpot doctor) than discussing socially and psychology how it ties into this thread. That people are missing the thread. Even over looking social deviance vs counterculture. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/11 "2017-09-18T01:19:30Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > I think too many members here are too caught up with doctor Miguel Echeverry work (crackpot doctor) than discussing socially and psychology how it ties into this thread. That people are missing the thread. > > Even over looking social deviance vs counterculture. Then how about you give an understandable explanation of what you want to debate. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/12 "2017-09-18T02:02:09Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > I think too many members here are too caught up with doctor Miguel Echeverry work (crackpot doctor) than discussing socially and psychology how it ties into this thread. That people are missing the thread. Huh? Then why does the OP _ask_ about this guy and his work? (“What is your view of doctor Miguel Echeverry book on subculture? Doctor Miguel Echeverry seems to be arguing that subculture is a mental illness. That hippies and punks is a mental illness.”) ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/13 "2017-09-18T02:26:16Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Then how about you give an understandable explanation of what you want to debate. Problem is I would have to understand basic of Sociology and Psychology first and than social deviance and counterculture before I can begin looking at counterculture groups like hippies and punks and than doctor Miguel Echeverry book how that ties in together. It is beyond my level of knowledge or even know how to ask such intelligence question or know what to ask with not having proquest of learning. I know social deviance is a mental illness but counterculture is not. I’m hoping some member here may explain the confusion and how it ties in. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/14 "2017-09-18T02:28:50Z")
Perhaps you want to ask a moderator to put this thread out of its misery? ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/15 "2017-09-18T02:34:22Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Huh? Then why does the OP _ask_ about this guy and his work? (“What is your view of doctor Miguel Echeverry book on subculture? Doctor Miguel Echeverry seems to be arguing that subculture is a mental illness. That hippies and punks is a mental illness.”) May be confusion is difference of understanding social deviance and counterculture first than how it ties into doctor Miguel Echeverry book or what makes doctor Miguel Echeverry book bad science. Or some how I’m confuse of difference of social deviance vs counterculture. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/16 "2017-09-18T12:08:32Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > May be confusion is difference of understanding social deviance and counterculture first Perhaps you should start by referencing your sources for definitions of social deviance and counterculture then, rather than asking about a book you haven’t read. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/17 "2017-09-18T13:14:42Z")
[Here](https://mindhacks.com/2010/12/23/treating-the-madness-of-the-hippies/) is an English-language discussion of the book. (ooops, I see that it has already been linked.) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/18 "2017-09-18T18:39:23Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > Well social deviance is a mental illness Is it? According to whom, Echeverry? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/19 "2017-09-18T18:46:40Z")
My take: Social deviance is taking attitudes and performing acts that are against the social norms. Counter culture is a subculture in which actions and attitudes that would be seen as deviant in the larger culture are not seen as deviant. Neither are inherently immoral or otherwise harmful, and in fact their existence is necessary for a vibrant evolving society. Neither in and of themselves represent psychological pathology (In particular there is nothing psychologically pathological about Hippies), but it is possible that a psychological pathology might lead one into taking socially deviant attitudes and actions (such as murdering people because your demon possessed dog told you to). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444/20 "2017-09-18T22:29:14Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Is it? According to whom, Echeverry? I believe the OP prefers we use the identifier “doctor Miguel Echeverry”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-view-of-doctor-miguel-echeverry-book-on-subculture/796444.md?page=2)