# What justification is there for eating meat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659 "2017-07-07T00:25:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/61 "2017-07-07T16:04:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What about hunting wild animals for food? I don’t really condone hunting that isn’t for survival, but I’m not opposed to it in the same way I’m opposed to farming animals. I also have absolutely no issue with people eating roadkill. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/62 "2017-07-07T16:09:36Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > I also have absolutely no issue with people eating roadkill. Throw many dinner parties, do you? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/63 "2017-07-07T16:59:07Z")
**Marcus Flavius** , why do we need to “justify” eating meat (as your post’s title puts it)? You have to “justify” things that are otherwise “bad.” I would assert that what you want to do is argue that there are “better” (more efficient, perhaps) methods of obtaining our daily nutrients. Or, perhaps you want to assert that there is some inherent cruelty in eating animals (though to be honest, I’ve never understood why it’s cruel to eat an animal, but not cruel to cut down a plant and eat it). But either way, it would seem that the onus is on you to “justify” the assertion that we should NOT eat meat. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/64 "2017-07-07T17:27:34Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > Given the fact that humans can get by just fine without any meat or animal products in their diet, and the amount of cheaply available grains, vegetables, fruits and legumes everywhere, what justification is there for consuming animal products, other than"it tastes good?" Should we be breeding animals into existence to live in disgraceful conditions and then have them slaughtered for our pleasure? The justification, as has been stated, is that animals are tasty (for the most part) Humans are omnivores. The shape and structure of our teeth shows us that. Our bodies are capable of processing both meat and vegetables. So what’s the argument against eating meat? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/65 "2017-07-07T18:08:36Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Do you drink cow milk? > > Cows are bred so that they’ll produce milk. The offspring produced, if female, contribute to replacement dairy producers for the herd. But, about half the offspring produced are male calves, aka veal calves. What would you have Farmer Jones do with these male calves? > > Veal exists, at least in part, due to people drinking milk. I don’t drink milk, not for any moral reasons: I’d just rather have something else. (I also take my coffee and tea black.) However I certainly LOVE cheese. You know, I just learned something here. I had never made a connection between veal calves and the dairy industry. That wasn’t mentioned in the ONE documentary that I saw years ago. I probably still won’t eat veal though. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/66 "2017-07-07T18:09:11Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > **Marcus Flavius** , why do we need to “justify” eating meat (as your post’s title puts it)? Someone should have asked that in one of he first 5 posts of this tread. 😉 Another thing, though, is the OP should realize that most of us have had this exact debate on this MB multiple times. This comes up once or twice a year. He needs to bring something more to the table this time (pun intended) if he really wants people to engage. And separate out the issue of eating meat vs humane treatment of animals. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/67 "2017-07-07T19:01:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Someone should have asked that in one of he first 5 posts of this tread. 😉 > > Another thing, though, is the OP should realize that most of us have had this exact debate on this MB multiple times. This comes up once or twice a year. He needs to bring something more to the table this time (pun intended) if he really wants people to engage. And separate out the issue of eating meat vs humane treatment of animals. I’ll have to look up one of those threads to remember what my position is on this! 😃 Seriously, I’m very ambivalent on this. I think the objection to meat-eating comes from the observation that most of the animals involved are sentient. OTOH, eating meat is a natural part of our physiological makeup and biological origin. So where does that leave us in this debate? I think it’s hopeless to try to take an intellectual approach to this dichotomy, although some vegetarians indeed have done so and avoid meat for ethical rather than dietary reasons. I respect that; I’m just not one of them. What I’ve done, though, is gradually cut down on meat consumption, especially red meat. I admit I’ll enjoy a really good steak thrown on the barbie every once in a while – done medium-rare in fact – but not often and not big. The last time we had steak was a lovely large-ish beautifully marinated striploin – a single one of which I took about one-third, and couldn’t even finish that (although it was delicious). Sadly I’m not a big fan of most vegetables, either, but my salvation in the food department is that I love potatoes, pasta, mushrooms, and a few specific veggies. When it comes to meat, the only species that needs to fear me somewhat is the humble chicken. I eat a fair amount of that! ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/68 "2017-07-07T19:10:28Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > **Marcus Flavius** , why do we need to “justify” eating meat (as your post’s title puts it)? You have to “justify” things that are otherwise “bad.” > > I would assert that what you want to do is argue that there are “better” (more efficient, perhaps) methods of obtaining our daily nutrients. Or, perhaps you want to assert that there is some inherent cruelty in eating animals (though to be honest, I’ve never understood why it’s cruel to eat an animal, but not cruel to cut down a plant and eat it). But either way, it would seem that the onus is on you to “justify” the assertion that we should NOT eat meat. A highly “advanced” alien race comes down to Earth and conquers the human race. They start a program where they forcibly breed humans and then have them live in brutal slavery in filthy, deplorable, crowded conditions until they are ready to be killed for food. The aliens absolutely do not need human meat to survive or even thrive, but they eat it anyway because it “tastes good” to them, and because they believe they are the “superior” species. Would you not find this abhorrent? Would you not object to this ( for any reason other than self-interest?). And the vast, almost criminal wastefulness of meat production is something that doesn’t get enough attention. It’s like a guy who routinely takes a single bite out of whatever he’s eating and then throws the rest away. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/69 "2017-07-07T19:31:00Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I’ll have to look up one of those threads to remember what my position is on this! 😃 > > Seriously, I’m very ambivalent on this. I think the objection to meat-eating comes from the observation that most of the animals involved are sentient. OTOH, eating meat is a natural part of our physiological makeup and biological origin. So where does that leave us in this debate? > \*\* > I think it’s hopeless to try to take an intellectual approach to this dichotomy,\*\* although some vegetarians indeed have done so and avoid meat for ethical rather than dietary reasons. I respect that; I’m just not one of them. What I’ve done, though, is gradually cut down on meat consumption, especially red meat. I admit I’ll enjoy a really good steak thrown on the barbie every once in a while – done medium-rare in fact – but not often and not big. The last time we had steak was a lovely large-ish beautifully marinated striploin – a single one of which I took about one-third, and couldn’t even finish that (although it was delicious). Sadly I’m not a big fan of most vegetables, either, but my salvation in the food department is that I love potatoes, pasta, mushrooms, and a few specific veggies. > > When it comes to meat, the only species that needs to fear me somewhat is the humble chicken. I eat a fair amount of that! This is probably true. There are few things people are more passionate about than their diet/eating habits. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/70 "2017-07-07T20:26:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Aside: **davida03801** , have you tried pasta products using TVP? I won’t claim that it’s a replacement for meat for every purpose, but when it’s drenched in tomato sauce, it’s really hard to tell the difference. Never heard of TVP till I just look up. As I read it is a **highly processed** meat alternative. Isn’t there another entire cult out there who advocate against highly processed foods? Is this jumping from one group telling me what to eat or not verses another? ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/71 "2017-07-07T20:37:15Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > And the vast, almost criminal wastefulness of meat production is something that doesn’t get enough attention. It’s like a guy who routinely takes a single bite out of whatever he’s eating and then throws the rest away. As I have heard, from more than one source, in meat processing faculties the only part of the cattle not used is the Moo. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/72 "2017-07-07T20:45:31Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > As I have heard, from more than one source, in meat processing faculties the only part of the cattle not used is the Moo. In swine facilities it’s the oink. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/73 "2017-07-07T20:45:47Z")
If the OP doesn’t want to eat meat, that’s fine. Or are you proposing that you decide for the rest of us, what we eat? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/74 "2017-07-07T20:46:41Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > As I have heard, from more than one source, in meat processing faculties the only part of the cattle not used is the Moo. I have toured a slaughterhouse and I can confirm. They use pretty much everything except the poop (and might have a use for that for all I know). Even the blood is used (that was the only room they would not let me see because they said most people puke from the smell the first time and when leaving my friend and I walked near a vent exhausting air outside from that room and my friend instantly puked). ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/75 "2017-07-07T21:10:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I have toured a slaughterhouse and I can confirm. > > They use pretty much everything except the poop (and might have a use for that for all I know). Even the blood is used (that was the only room they would not let me see because they said most people puke from the smell the first time and when leaving my friend and I walked near a vent exhausting air outside from that room and my friend instantly puked). Cow teeth? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/76 "2017-07-07T21:25:53Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > If the OP doesn’t want to eat meat, that’s fine. > > Or are you proposing that you decide for the rest of us, what we eat? I don’t think sklee is proposing that. I think sklee is proposing that anybody who disagrees with skler is skler moral inferior. That, I think we can all agree, is a very, _very_ common position on virtually every topic here at the SDMB. Sklee fits right in. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/77 "2017-07-07T21:29:46Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > As I have heard, from more than one source, in meat processing faculties the only part of the cattle not used is the Moo. And even that can bu utilized to make [Moo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GQ126DUsyQ) [Boxes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moo_box). ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/78 "2017-07-07T22:31:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, let’s turn it around: Vegetarians, how do you justify eating plants? Why is that any more acceptable than eating animals? Sure, we’ve got to eat something, but why should that something be a living plant rather than a once-living animal? Well, if plants are self aware, feel pain, and suffer, it’s much less obvious to humans than the feelings of animals. (Okay, most animals probably aren’t self-aware. They all feel pain and are capable of suffering, though.) But again, there’s no need to mistreat meat animals, and there’s a fair amount of humanely reared meat on the market. Also, less inhumane reared meat, depending on your goal posts. > [@Chronos](#): > > Aside: **davida03801** , have you tried pasta products using TVP? I won’t claim that it’s a replacement for meat for every purpose, but when it’s drenched in tomato sauce, it’s really hard to tell the difference. No, it’s really not hard to tell the difference. TVP is why nasty institutional food tastes like nasty institutional food. Well, it’s why the “meat sauce” tastes that way. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/79 "2017-07-07T22:38:50Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I don’t think sklee is proposing that. I think sklee is proposing that anybody who disagrees with skler is skler moral inferior. That, I think we can all agree, is a very, _very_ common position on virtually every topic here at the SDMB. Sklee fits right in. sklee? skler? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/80 "2017-07-07T22:53:51Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > sklee? skler? Obviously, Scumpup is choosing to use gender-neutral pronouns. I have to admit, they do sound a little silly compared to the more classy “xyrs” or “xem” or “gloopledoop.” (Okay, gloopledoop isn’t on [the](https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-864093e9ae5d1a72cab30399f43e9671) [charts](http://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/wp-content/uploads/sites/162/2016/04/Pronoun-cards-2016-02-1024x585.png) yet.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659.md?page=5)