# What justification is there for eating meat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659 "2017-07-07T00:25:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/81 "2017-07-07T23:08:27Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > A highly “advanced” alien race comes down to Earth and conquers the human race. They start a program where they forcibly breed humans and then have them live in brutal slavery in filthy, deplorable, crowded conditions until they are ready to be killed for food. The aliens absolutely do not need human meat to survive or even thrive, but they eat it anyway because it “tastes good” to them, and because they believe they are the “superior” species. Would you not find this abhorrent? Would you not object to this ( for any reason other than self-interest?). Do they give us a book called _To Serve Man_? Absolutely we would organize and revolt. Ever wonder why cows don’t do that? But again, I can’t tell if you’re objecting to eating meat or to raising livestock in unethical environments. What if cows are sent out into the pasture every day to graze till their hearts’ content, and then brought into shelter at night to protect them from predators? How good is that?? Infant mortality for the livestock is orders of magnitude lower then their wild cousins. Win-win. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/82 "2017-07-08T01:52:38Z")
> [@brainstall](#): > > I don’t mind the veggie hotdogs and cold cuts and ground meat substitute. I even eat Tofurkey at Christmas. But, they have yet to produce something that even resembles the fatty, porky goodness of real bacon. Until they do, I remain a meat eater. I agree that they haven’t come up with fake bacon that is as good as real bacon…but they have come up with fake bacon that’s pretty darn good! Baby steps! The first time I had “mock duck,” I could not tell the difference between it and real duck. Okay, I’m not a super-taster, and there are certainly people who are. But for the billion or so of us who are kinda “in the middle” as far as tastes go, they have done a very credible job of making yummy fake meats. (Also, good point about synthetic meats … actual meat tissue, vat grown or otherwise synthesized. That might come about. Personally, I predict the synthesizing of actual meat proteins, but mixed into a vegetable base or matrix.) ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/83 "2017-07-08T02:14:44Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > They use pretty much everything except the poop (and might have a use for that for all I know It is used for fertilizer. This reminds me of an old joke/saying I heard every few days for about 6 months by a gruff and ready construction superintendent on my 1st job out of college. “When they take cow shit bag it up and sell it, you know its a crazy world out there.” ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/84 "2017-07-08T03:07:15Z")
Say what you want about meat,it’s a remarkably good nutrition delivery system. Assume that a 25-year old woman who stands 5’ 6" and weighs 120 pounds needs [2,000 calories per day to maintain her body weight.](http://www.calculator.net/calorie-calculator.html?ctype=standard&cage=25&csex=f&cheightfeet=5&cheightinch=6&cpound=120&cheightmeter=180&ckg=60&cactivity=1.55&printit=0&x=37&y=16) [One cup of cooked soybeans has 298 calories](http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4376/2), so she would require about 6.7 cups per day to meet that requirement. That’s about 54 ounces. Compare that to 17 ounces of lean beef, or roughly 36 ounces of skinless chicken or lean pork. And soybeans are high in protein for a plant. One cup is good for 29 grams. Switch that to brown rice and you’re down to 5 grams per cup. While you may not have to graze all day if you eliminate animal products from your diet, the honest truth is you WILL have to eat more to get the same oomph. Now, project that to third-world poverty where people get little enough animal protein as it is, and you’ve created as many problems as you’ve solved. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/85 "2017-07-08T03:28:19Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > You know, I just learned something here. I had never made a connection between veal calves and the dairy industry. That wasn’t mentioned in the ONE documentary that I saw years ago. I probably still won’t eat veal though. Once upon a time, when farmers separated the calves from their dairy cows they’d send the female ones off to grow up and become dairy cows, but other than a couple of male calves destined to be future stud bulls they’d simply slaughter the “excess” male calves and, being thrifty, would eat them. Veal wasn’t much valued, it was a matter of making use of otherwise useless meat, sort of like Rocky Mountain Oysters or chitterlings. Then veal became trendy or at least desirable. Hey, those extra male dairy calves now had value! Hey, how long can we keep them growing and adding weight without losing the veal characteristics? We have to severely restrict their diet? Confine them and keeping them from moving? Cruel? Probably… but… PROFIT!!! The problem isn’t eating veal in and of itself, it’s keeping veal for that extra time period in order to increasing profits. I’d be willing to eat veal if it was old-style, slaughtered just after separation from the cow, but not veal calves fed inadequate diets and housed in what I feel are cruel conditions. As I have no way of knowing how the veal I have access to is raised I simply don’t eat veal. Likewise, although I used to enjoy eating mako shark steaks but I no longer do so due to their decreasing populations due to over-fishing by humans. I can’t justify to myself eating an endangered species, or one heading towards that status. So even though I eat meat I do have ethical standards I adhere to. I eat less meat than I used to but that’s largely due to concerns about maximizing my own health. But I’m not going to become a vegan because, due to medical issues, obtaining sufficient protein from solely non-animal sources would be somewhere between very difficult and impossible for me. Even regular vegetarianism presents some problems for me. But yes - I also eat meat because I like it. I like the taste. I like the texture. I enjoy it. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/86 "2017-07-08T04:25:26Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Say what you want about meat,it’s a remarkably good nutrition delivery system. > > Assume that a 25-year old woman who stands 5’ 6" and weighs 120 pounds needs [2,000 calories per day to maintain her body weight.](http://www.calculator.net/calorie-calculator.html?ctype=standard&cage=25&csex=f&cheightfeet=5&cheightinch=6&cpound=120&cheightmeter=180&ckg=60&cactivity=1.55&printit=0&x=37&y=16) > > [One cup of cooked soybeans has 298 calories](http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4376/2), so she would require about 6.7 cups per day to meet that requirement. That’s about 54 ounces. > > Compare that to 17 ounces of lean beef, or roughly 36 ounces of skinless chicken or lean pork. > > And soybeans are high in protein for a plant. One cup is good for 29 grams. Switch that to brown rice and you’re down to 5 grams per cup. > > While you may not have to graze all day if you eliminate animal products from your diet, the honest truth is you WILL have to eat more to get the same oomph. Now, project that to third-world poverty where people get little enough animal protein as it is, and you’ve created as many problems as you’ve solved. I’m a large man, weighing in excess of 200lbs, and I do strenuous physical activity on a regular basis. I can meet my energy requirements just fine on a plant based diet. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/87 "2017-07-08T06:23:34Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > I’m a large man, weighing in excess of 200lbs, and I do strenuous physical activity on a regular basis. I can meet my energy requirements just fine on a plant based diet. In the end it is all just calories in and calories out. You can certainly get the calories you need with a vegetable only diet. Most of the largest animals on the planet are herbivores. For humans certainly doable but takes a bit more work to be sure you are getting all the bits you need. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/88 "2017-07-08T10:34:06Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > I’m a large man, weighing in excess of 200lbs, and I do strenuous physical activity on a regular basis. I can meet my energy requirements just fine on a plant based diet. Cool! More meat for us! ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/89 "2017-07-08T21:55:02Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > I’m a large man, weighing in excess of 200lbs, and I do strenuous physical activity on a regular basis. I can meet my energy requirements just fine on a plant based diet. Glad for you. You can eat as you want, bring whatever food into your house as you want. No one objects to that. However I, along with everyone else, have the same right with the diet of my choice, so respect that. btw…I thought the opening OP was a tad bit condescending. I believe a few others did also. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/90 "2017-07-09T04:35:17Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Glad for you. You can eat as you want, bring whatever food into your house as you want. No one objects to that. > > However I, along with everyone else, have the same right with the diet of my choice, so respect that. > > btw…I thought the opening OP was a tad bit condescending. I believe a few others did also. It’s not my intention to be condescending. It’s just… frustrating sometimes. Imagine debating with child-molesters who gloat and joke about their predilections with no shame at all, who, no matter what arguments you throw at them, cant seem to even consider that their actions might be wrong. That’s what I feel like debating most meat eaters. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/91 "2017-07-09T05:03:04Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > It’s not my intention to be condescending. It’s just… frustrating sometimes. > > Imagine debating with child-molesters who gloat and joke about their predilections with no shame at all, who, no matter what arguments you throw at them, cant seem to even consider that their actions might be wrong. > That’s what I feel like debating most meat eaters. Did you just attempt to compare meat-eaters (most people) with child molesters? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/92 "2017-07-09T05:17:09Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > Imagine debating with child-molesters who gloat and joke about their predilections with no shame at all, who, no matter what arguments you throw at them, cant seem to even consider that their actions might be wrong. > That’s what I feel like debating most meat eaters. Unfortunately equating meat-eating with child molestation ends the debate before it can begin. I’m not personally offended( because I don’t care that much about the opinions of strangers on the internet), but many will be. I understand it may be an emotive issue for you and others of a more militant ethical vegetarian stance. But however emotionally sound that comparison may seem to you, logically it is a fail. Moderate meat consumption is biologically the default state of our species, child molestation is not. You’re the one trying to convince a majority to accept your minority practice. Trying to shame folks rarely works in arguments - best to keep your opinions of meat-eaters to yourself if they’re going to come out that charged. Anyway what is your problem with killing sentients for sustenanance? Religious? I mean most other sentients on this planet will do so, including many supposed herbivores when given the opportunity. And how are you defining sentience? Do you include fish? Insects? Jellyfish? Tunicates? ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/93 "2017-07-09T05:28:09Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Did you just attempt to compare meat-eaters (most people) with child molesters? Ok ok, maybe that was a bit too harsh of a comparison… but replace child molesters with people who eat dog meat and believe there is nothing wrong with farming and slaughtering dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/94 "2017-07-09T05:31:20Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > … with no shame at all, who, no matter what arguments you throw at them, cant seem to even consider that their actions might be wrong. Could it be that you are the one who is wrong? Ever consider that possibility? ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/95 "2017-07-09T05:33:46Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Moderate meat consumption is\*\* biologically the default state of our species\*\*, What does that even mean? > [@Tamerlane](#): > > Anyway what is your problem with killing sentients for sustenanance? Philosophically, I am opposed to bringing life into existence ( see ‘antinatalism’- meat consumption obviously incentives the breeding of farm animals into existence.) Ethically, I am opposed to bringing life into existence to be horribly exploited, and then killed for no other reason than for our pleasure. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/96 "2017-07-09T05:42:38Z")
Meat eaters are like child molesters. Is that REALLY the analogy you want to go with? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/97 "2017-07-09T05:43:12Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > Ethically, I am opposed to bringing life into existence to be horribly exploited, and then killed for no other reason than for our pleasure. So, I can’t plant rose bushes with the express purpose of cutting flowers and putting them into vases? Can I raise and eat grubs? If yes, is it only because I raise it for food and not the taste? I mean what if it tastes horrible, would that make it okay to eat? Or is it only animals that you consider ‘sentient’ that we can’t raise for our food? You ever been around a cow? They are pretty stupid creatures. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/98 "2017-07-09T05:44:33Z")
I meant to say ‘sentient’ life. Cattle are sentient lifeforms. Rosebushes are not. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/99 "2017-07-09T05:47:06Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Meat eaters are like child molesters. Is that REALLY the analogy you want to go with? They’re both indefensible actions as far as I’m concerned, only one has widespread social acceptance and the other does not. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/100 "2017-07-09T05:50:31Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > Ok ok, maybe that was a bit too harsh of a comparison… but replace child molesters with people who eat dog meat and believe there is nothing wrong with farming and slaughtering dogs. There isn’t [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659.md?page=6)