# What justification is there for eating meat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659 "2017-07-07T00:25:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/121 "2017-07-09T20:34:32Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > I don’t understand this “we evolved to do it” argument. Yes, we are physically capable of eating and digesting meat. We are also physically capable of spitting, but it usually isn’t considered acceptable to spit in people’s faces. What is not to understand? Cow is adapted to eating grass, from its teeth to its digestive system, all highly evolved to be a grass feeder. So evolved in fact, that eating and digesting meat would be near impossible for it. Human is evolved to being omnivorous, and gaining certain things from meat. Our teeth are poorly suited for eating grasses, and many harder plants. They are well designed though for eating meats and softer plants. Take a good look at human teeth, not super terribly efficient design for heavy plant eating are they? We require B12, and yet we can not get it directly, we can not eat the things that carry the bacteria that produce it. We have adapted to get that by eating the meat of those who can. We evolved to be able to eat something virtually any hospitable place on the entire planet, and that includes meat. We require proteins that are not just laying about naturally in the plant world. It may be shocking but peanuts etc don’t exactly just appear all over, and other sources are seasonal and tend not to be readily available in mid winter, but meat is. We also actually need fats and other things that are in meat. It isn’t something some modern guy decided to start a trend in, it is how we adapted and survived. You don’t just wake up and say Hey, i am modern man, i am greater than nature, we no longer eat meat, or berries, or roots, or what ever thing you decide against. You cant do that no more than you can wake up and decide man no longer walks on 2 spindly legs, we are going to fly, or run on all 4 like a horse. We did not evolve around a modern grocery and food supplement store, and we spent over a million years getting to and perfecting what we are. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/122 "2017-07-09T20:47:16Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > Given the fact that humans can get by just fine without any meat or animal products in their diet, and the amount of cheaply available grains, vegetables, fruits and legumes everywhere, what justification is there for consuming animal products, other than"it tastes good?" Should we be breeding animals into existence to live in disgraceful conditions and then have them slaughtered for our pleasure? Aren’t types of protein tough to get by eating plants alone? There are benefits from eating meat. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/123 "2017-07-09T21:09:51Z")
This might be a fine occasion to provide some entertaining and mostly not very serious insight into why some folks (like me) don’t eat as much meat as we used to, especially not a lot of heavy-to-digest red meats. It’s because to some people, at least some meats at some times have a subtle yet somehow unavoidable undercurrent of “gross”. I give you the famous Lileks Institute of Official Cheer [Gallery of Regrettable Foods](http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/index.html), and specifically the section [“Meat! Meat! Meat! Also, Meat!”](http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/meat/index.html) Among my favorites exhibitions: 😃 One of the more popular cuts: pressed shank braised with smoker’s phlegm. It may take a few tries to get Uncle Hank to hack up enough Lucky sauce, so be patient. [http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/meat/5.html](http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/meat/5.html) This is a hocks ‘n’ brats concoction; resembles some hooves stuffed and boiled until they explode. Note, to the right, the small figurine of some ruminant, facing away from the meal, blessing it with an offering of methane and hay-gas. [http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/meat/7.html](http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/meat/7.html) There are many meals in the Gallery I’ve described in terms of inadvertent stomach evacuations, but this is perhaps the most vomitous dish I have ever seen. Just Rupe ‘n’ Heat! What were they thinking? Didn’t anyone remark how much this looks like a skillet full of spew? I’d suggest that this entire book was made by vegetarians, a sly piece of propaganda, but even the beans look awful. [http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/meat/9.html](http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/meat/9.html) Moving too slow to be measured by the eye of man, the Great Meat Glacier pushed inexorably south. [http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/meat/11.html](http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/meat/11.html) Yummm! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/124 "2017-07-09T21:22:40Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > See [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=830250) recent thread. Thanks. Interesting related discussion. Of course we DO eat leaves and stems. Celery, cabbage, asparagus, chard… Those are all more digestible than grass. but not especially calorie-rich. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/125 "2017-07-09T21:39:57Z")
Weisshund, we didn’t evolve around grocery stores, but most Americans have access to one today. And it certainly is possible for most healthy adults to get all the nutrients they need from plants. It takes a little extra work to be a vegan, but I have a couple of friends who have lived as healthy vegans for decades. For most of us the only major downside to veganism is that the food doesn’t taste as good and takes more work to prepare. (In addition to the two friends who can’t digest beans, I also have a cousin whose doctor convinced her to return to eating meat, because she had all sorts of vague health problems that developed after she became vegetarian, and that did, in fact, clear up when she ate meat. So not all humans can live well on vegetables. But most can.) ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/126 "2017-07-09T23:45:05Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Could it be that you are the one who is wrong? Ever consider that possibility? I don’t believe I am wrong. Especially since the _only_ valid argument I’ve ever heard for eating meat once all the facts are provided is essentially “I don’t care, I like eating meat.” It’s not the least bit convincing, but it’s valid. If someone doesn’t care, there’s really nothing else that can be said. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/127 "2017-07-09T23:55:08Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > I don’t believe I am wrong. Especially since the _only_ valid argument I’ve ever heard for eating meat once all the facts are provided is essentially “I don’t care, I like eating meat.” It’s not the least bit convincing, but it’s valid. If someone doesn’t care, there’s really nothing else that can be said. You haven’t even bothered reading the thread? Because several other reasons have been given here, based on real nutritional science. If you insist on putting your fingers in your ears and singing arias from Il Trovatore, that’s fine, but it’s a very poor debate technique. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/128 "2017-07-10T00:03:53Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > You haven’t even bothered reading the thread? Because several other reasons have been given here, based on real nutritional science. > > If you insist on putting your fingers in your ears and singing arias from Il Trovatore, that’s fine, but it’s a very poor debate technique. There is no nutrient available in meat that is not available in plant foods. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/129 "2017-07-10T00:33:08Z")
_“Nobody with a good car needs to be justified”_ [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aYKVB9Q230) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/130 "2017-07-10T00:51:20Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > There is no nutrient available in meat that is not available in plant foods. Vitamin B12 You also have not addressed the issue of people with medical conditions that would prevent them from living a healthy life on a completely non-animal sourced diet. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/131 "2017-07-10T01:27:21Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Vitamin B12 > > You also have not addressed the issue of people with medical conditions that would prevent them from living a healthy life on a completely non-animal sourced diet. B12 can easily be obtained from supplements and fortified foods such as tofu and nutritional yeast. But B12 doesn’t come directly from meat, it come from the soil. Did you know that many factory farmed animals are actually B12 deficient, and need to be given B12 supplements themselves? So meat eaters are essentially already taking B12 supplements wrapped in flesh. And I suppose it’s not unreasonable that out of 7.5 billion+ people, there could be some with a compilation of serious intolerances to plant foods or other conditions that make it difficult for them to be healthy on a completely plant based diet. Such people would fall under the “as far as possible and practicable” exception and eat small amounts of animal derived foods. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/132 "2017-07-10T01:53:30Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > There is no nutrient available in meat that is not available in plant foods. That doesn’t actually answer my charge. You said that the “only valid argument I’ve heard” was “‘I don’t care, I like eating meat.’” That isn’t true; several other valid arguments have been put forward. You may disagree with them, but that, in itself, does not make them invalid. You’re attempting to declare victory without the medium of debate. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/133 "2017-07-10T02:20:18Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > And I suppose it’s not unreasonable that out of 7.5 billion+ people, there could be some with a compilation of serious intolerances to plant foods or other conditions that make it difficult for them to be healthy on a completely plant based diet. Such people would fall under the “as far as possible and practicable” exception and eat small amounts of animal derived foods. One thing that has already been pointed out is that for some of us the problem isn’t so much “I need meat” as “soy tries to kill me”. Or, in Broomstick’s case, tomatoes (and that’s the one I remember, she’s got other alimentary problems). It’s not so much a matter of needing to get nutrients from meat as of trying to avoid dying from vegan foods. I realize you’d be perfectly happy if we went and choked to death on our soy burgers, since we commited the sin of being born human, but I happen to like most human beings and I’d like to see my nephews grow up. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/134 "2017-07-10T02:32:32Z")
I do not wish for people to die choking to death on soy burgers, there is no victory in such things. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/135 "2017-07-10T02:45:59Z")
I know a couple of people who could not survive on vegan food. Others have mentioned similarly situated acquaintances. I’d guess that it’s a few percent of people who need to eat animal products to stay healthy. As for the rest of us… Is your argument actually that it’s terrible for new sentient creatures to come into creation? That’s at best a rather odd argument. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/136 "2017-07-10T03:04:57Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > I do not wish for people to die choking to death on soy burgers, there is no victory in such things. Victory… ? So now it is a victory that you must have to make the rest of us submit to your will ? Why can’t you just eat as you want and leave the rest of us to do the same as we want ? ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/137 "2017-07-10T03:08:36Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I know a couple of people who could not survive on vegan food. Others have mentioned similarly situated acquaintances. I’d guess that it’s a few percent of people who need to eat animal products to stay healthy. > > As for the rest of us… Is your argument actually that it’s terrible for new sentient creatures to come into creation? That’s at best a rather odd argument. Read up on ‘antinatalism.’ It’s not an ‘odd’ argument, it’s a completely valid philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/138 "2017-07-10T03:12:25Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Victory… ? So now it is a victory that you must have to make the rest of us submit to your will ? > > Why can’t you just eat as you want and leave the rest of us to do the same as we want ? Victory to me means making others see the truth in what I believe, not making them submit. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/139 "2017-07-10T03:12:56Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Weisshund, we didn’t evolve around grocery stores, but most Americans have access to one today. Which has nothing to do with evolution > [@](#): > > And it certainly is possible for most healthy adults to get all the nutrients they need from plants. It takes a little extra work to be a vegan, but I have a couple of friends who have lived as healthy vegans for decades. For most of us the only major downside to veganism is that the food doesn’t taste as good and takes more work to prepare. Not exactly true. Take away the supplements that modern science has perfected. Now go eat only plants, as found in nature. You may not manipulate anything. The result of that will show you why humans eat meat. It wasn’t some conscious choice, no more so than it is for a Lion. And we have not done much evolving since then, so if you take a person and put them out there, in the wild, and they wont eat any meat, they are not going to be doing so well. You are comparing a recently created artificially supplemented situation to what we spent a million something years out there in the wild becoming, and trying to offer it as the answer, but it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659/140 "2017-07-10T11:34:48Z")
But I am a domestic human who can buy supplemental B12 extracted from sewage. I am not living in the wild. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justification-is-there-for-eating-meat/790659.md?page=8)