# What justifies Japanese sense of cultural superiority? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 22, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485 "2003-12-22T18:23:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/61 "2003-12-29T08:32:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by YourOldBuddy \* > \*\*… import its musik from most everywhere and add that American quality to it (no pun intended). \*\* Oh please, everyone knows black Americans are at the root of the tree that is all popular music in the world today, every genre and subgenre except classical. Oh wait, my apologies, I retract everything, I forgot about all those Icelandic Delta bluesmen :rolleyes: Get the fuck oughta here. ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/62 "2003-12-29T12:11:06Z")
Jovan: > [@](#): > > As long as you don’t assume that everyone with a shaved head is a holy-person, if you search you can find many good teachers and dedicated disciples. I wouldn’t scratch that pilgrimage off your future projects. Thanks Jovan I might well do that if the money accumulates. I just didn’t want the kids laughing at me and throwing stones. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/63 "2003-12-29T14:10:56Z")
Oh, they will, but thank the Tathagata that they can’t throw large ones with those tiny hands! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/64 "2003-12-29T16:16:41Z")
Jovan, Then I don’t see any disagreement. What I really don’t want people to think is that “Zen”–as a genuine spiritual system, at least by American standards (NOT a business and WITH genuine spiritual goals)–is hardly practiced by anyone in this country. And I have never met anyone whom I would consider a serious Buddhist. If we can agree on these points, then the rest is frosting. ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/65 "2003-12-29T16:25:43Z")
Sorry for the musicology lesson sidetrack, as far as the OP, what justifies any nation’s sense of cultural superiority? I guess I’m not really clear, are you asking if the Japanese have a right to feel superior or for what reasons they feel they are superior? I have only anecdotal evidence of a secondhand nature on Japan, my wife is a citizen but I havent been there yet. Anyway, from what I’ve gleened so far, yes, Japanese identity is very much tied to being native Japanese as far back as you can trace, even foreigners who have lived or worked in Japan for most of their life and speak fluent Japanese are still foreigners. Japan was forced by the US through gunboat diplomacy to open its borders in the mid 1800’s, so the culture basically evolved in relative isolation for much of its history. The racism and mysogyny already pointed out earlier are real, but even the racism, like everything, else is usually polite. People assume things about you because you are not Japanese, but the instances of blatant hatred aren’t really commonplace. If they occur, they are mostly directed toward the Fillipino and Korean populations. The example my wife gave was of a Japanese man dating Fillipino woman, and all the Office Ladies where she worked would talk trash about the couple behind their backs. I dont know if its a feeling of superiority really, but in regard to westerners, the Japanese mostly just don’t believe anyone non-Japanaese can truly understand Japanese culture with its complex, rigid social mores, I guess thats kind of a sense of superiority, but seems less deliberate than, for example, the official French exclusion of foreign words(or as petty). ---
**Author:** ![Brandus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Brandus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandus)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/66 "2003-12-30T06:20:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by labmonkey \* > **Sorry for the musicology lesson sidetrack, as far as the OP, what justifies any nation’s sense of cultural superiority? I guess I’m not really clear, are you asking if the Japanese have a right to feel superior or for what reasons they feel they are superior?** I stated that expectedly, all cultures feel their own is superior. However I was curious as to what is the REASON for Japanese in particular that gives them their sense of cultural superiority. Is it an island mentality? What has Japan done that is truly exceptional? The transformation to a modern economy within a few decades is impressive, but before that, historically, why was Japan exceptional? Did they throw off any oppressors? Did they create some architectural wonder? Or was it merely a fact of being born by parents who lived on the island? ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/67 "2003-12-30T06:30:51Z")
Brandus, I answered this in an earlier part of the thread: the Japanese that feel superior who are not rightwing nuts (i.e., the Emperor is a god; therefore our nation is superior; very few like this today!) generally say the following kinds of things: 1. Japanese people work hard; gaijin are lazy. 2. Literacy in Japan in nearly 100%; in foreign countries it’s not so. 3. Nihonjin ha chanto shite iru; gaijin ha chanto shite inai (Japanese people do the right thing; gaijin don’t do the right thing. Difficult to translate perfectly. This has more to do with social respectablity and dependability than moral correctness.) On the other hand, the Japanese that have inferiority complexes admire the dynamism of, say, America; its power in the entertainment industry; Euro or African looks; etc. BTW, my wife is Japanese, and she and I have experienced almost zero racism in that regard in either the US or in Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/68 "2003-12-30T06:32:02Z")
Sorry, I also wanted to say that Jovan explained the racism thing above very, very well. Smart guy. ---
**Author:** ![Brandus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Brandus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandus)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2003, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/69 "2003-12-30T06:35:01Z")
Yes, I mean to add that I was already more than satiated by the personal experiences already shared here, I was just trying to bring labmonkey into the loop. Thanks, **Aeschines**. ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2003, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/70 "2003-12-30T06:56:23Z")
What **Aeschines** said. My wife and I did argue those very points early on in our relationship, we basically have come to the agreement of not extending cultural sterotypes to ourselves in our private lives. That’s interesting **Aeschines** , we have experienced racism here in the states on a few occasions, mostly just annoying stuff, teenage girls yelling from a car…questions from coworkers about my intentions in marrying a submissive :rolleyes: Asian woman. ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2003, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/71 "2003-12-30T11:54:03Z")
Jovan - hehe it would keep me alert at least! ---
**Author:** ![zebman95](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/f475e1/32.png) [@zebman95](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zebman95)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/72 "2017-09-29T03:16:13Z")
What you stated sounds about right. My father was a navy officer and our family lived in Japan for a few years when I was between the age of 2-5. My sister was born there on US soil on the navy base in Yokosuka. For a year I attended a private Japanese school while also attending an american school. I remember attending the school at that young of age, I have memories of it. When I attended the Japanese school, I was often ostracized. There were a few other americans, and we mostly hung out together most of the time. We were considered odd compared to the other students, often seen as misfits with our sense of independence. I recall a particular period of time being bullied for a while. Often times being kicked after lunch by the japanese students; a ring leader and a few boys. I would always prepare myself for the attacks by getting my back to a wall and preparing for the blunt attacks. Much of my friends were all americans of different ethnicities; black, white, Indian (from India). Can’t recall ever having a Japanese friend. We lived on an american base too so much of our community was american. Now as an adult, I have visited in September in 2016. My sister grew up, got married, joined the navy, and was able to station herself in Japan at the same base she was born. When I came to visit, I had taught myself some Japanese to get around in preparing my trip there. My experience there was enjoyable and fun. The people are polite and accommodating. They are delighted when they see you speak their language or at least make an attempt. The culture places a big emphasis on tolerance through courtesy and politeness, so that is a great credit to their culture. There is however an underlying sense of exclusivity. When we went to a bath house in a hotel, even when we (my brother-in-law and I) abided by the cultural rules of preparing to enter a bathhouse, within about 2 minutes those who were already in the bath house slowly began to make their exit. I believe they were uncomfortable having a foreigner there, especially a black person. In another occasion, when I saw a young woman appearing to have some trouble getting her luggage up a steep set a stairs, I motioned to help, but she gave me a startled look like I wanted something. In summary, I feel they see the world as Japan and then there’s everyone else. You’re either Japanese (blessed) or your not Japanese (unfortunate). They pick and choose those things that tickle their fancy that are foreign, but their identity of being Japanese seems to be the center of their world. Mixing with other groups of people still seems like a taboo. Exceptions may be if the partner is white. They do like the exotic european look. The country is beautiful, fascinating, mysterious. The people are kind, polite, courteous, and as long as you do the same you won’t run into any trouble interacting with them. It is a country with a interesting balance between tradition and modernity. > [@Brandus](#): > > First, some examples of my biased, uneducated opinion on Japan; second, my responses to these opinions. > > Japan also has a very homogenous society, which refuses to grant lesser races, such as the koreans, Japanese citizenship. Japan is concerned about their society being over-run and inter-bred into decline. Japan is a racist county where a caucasian, african, or indian person will never be seen as an equal to a true Japanese. It is very difficult to secure an apartment in Japan unless you can reference several people who are already japanese citizens. The term gaijin accurately connotates these fears/biases, meaning foreigner with a negative, inferior connotation. Those who visit japan and learn the language, and customs, are seen as animals merely imitating what they see, it is somewhat like a zoo with the tourist in the cage. > > These feelings are not limited to the island. I recall a History documentary on WW2 internment camps housing japanese, german, and italian citizens seen as a threat to the war effort. In these scenarios, the japanese formed their own impenetrable “clique”, not even acknowledging the other people’s presence. > > * * * > > My reasoning is that Japan suffers from a strong sense of self-doubt of their own culture, so in response, their pride is exaggerated. For example, it can be argued that Japanese culture was initially inherited from the Chinese. > > More recently, Japanese culture can be seen as a pale imitation of american culture. For example, I pick up international stations on my 500 odd channel cable system. A program broadcast by a Tokyo company featured a fourteen year old girl singing a song, wearing a t-shirt with an american flag, and wearing a gold belt with the word "C A H" on it. Certainly "bling" is not a japanese custom? Furthermore, the symbol, used as an S here, is the symbol for the american dollar, dervied from the letters U and the S (United States) super-imposed on top of eachother, and the bottom U of the curve was eventually dropped. The host of this show was also wearing a shirt with an american flag design on it. > > Countless other examples exist since Hirohito bowed to MacArthur. > > * * * > > Hopefully someone who has been to the island can share some insight. In the meantime, are my accusastions way off the mark, is does Japan truly have this sense of cultural superiority? Is modern Japan a pale imitation of American pop culture? > > Understandably, all cultures feel their own is superior. Across the globe various civilizations push up the greatest they have produced, for the English it’s Shakespeare, for the Greeks it’s Plato, and so on. However I am most interested in Japan’s sense of cultural superiority. Hopefully this topic is more of a debate than a factual question. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/73 "2017-09-29T17:27:52Z")
What do you think of the recent zombie outbreak in Japan? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/74 "2017-09-30T00:47:40Z")
I blame CapCom. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/75 "2017-10-02T13:07:37Z")
I’ve lived in Japan for the better part of 30 years. I’m native-level fluent in Japanese. If you want to go out of your way to find racism in Japan, you’ll find it. "Japanese only’ and "Foreigners allowed’ signs? Sure, they’re around, but only for shops of ill-repute. So sure, if you don’t look Japanese, you may find it harder to pay for sex in Japan. Cry me a river. We hear these stories of ‘this and this happened to my friend’ - “And he was totally sober and polite and well-dressed” etc etc. Amazing how rare it is to hear a first-hand account. And I’ve been going out in Japan for 30 years, rented dozens of apartments etc in Japan, in big towns and small over those three decades, and have never had the slightest problem securing an apartment, getting into restaurants or respectable nightclubs, etc. Sure, the plural of anecdote is not ‘data’, but surely if the problem was really that widespread you’d think I would have come across an example or two after 30 years. None of my circle of friends - almost all old-time Japan hands as well - have ever experienced it either. Odd. What does Japan have that I wish other countries had? Being a housewife is respected as a profession - women run the household, control the finances, etc. Overall the country is clean, everything runs on time, it’s unbelievably safe. Crime is low. Misplace your wallet, you will almost certainly get it back, often with all the money still intact. Literacy is close to 100%. What do i wish Japan had that other countries have? More acceptance for women that want careers. Urban planning is a disaster - Japanese towns are (there’s no real nice way to say this) ugly beyond belief. As a whole Japan’s male population has an unpleasant and unhealthy attraction to underage girls in schoolgirl uniform. My ¥0.02. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/76 "2017-10-02T13:24:57Z")
Also, Debito Arudou is a first-rate crank with mental issues. He’s a blunt force object that thinks everything looks like a nail, even when it isn’t, and he’s not above creating situations to look like a nail if it serves his purpose. He yearns to be treated as a serious academic. He’s not. Ignore like the plague. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/77 "2017-10-13T10:57:46Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I’ve lived in Japan for the better part of 30 years. I’m native-level fluent in Japanese. If you want to go out of your way to find racism in Japan, you’ll find it. > > "Japanese only’ and "Foreigners allowed’ signs? Sure, they’re around, but only for shops of ill-repute. > So sure, if you don’t look Japanese, you may find it harder to pay for sex in Japan. Cry me a river. > > We hear these stories of ‘this and this happened to my friend’ - “And he was totally sober and polite and well-dressed” etc etc. > Amazing how rare it is to hear a first-hand account. And I’ve been going out in Japan for 30 years, rented dozens of apartments etc in Japan, in big towns and small over those three decades, and have never had the slightest problem securing an apartment, getting into restaurants or respectable nightclubs, etc. > > Sure, the plural of anecdote is not ‘data’, but surely if the problem was really that widespread you’d think I would have come across an example or two after 30 years. > None of my circle of friends - almost all old-time Japan hands as well - have ever experienced it either. Odd. Are you white? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/78 "2017-10-13T16:47:34Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I’ve lived in Japan for the better part of 30 years. I’m native-level fluent in Japanese. If you want to go out of your way to find racism in Japan, you’ll find it. > > "Japanese only’ and "Foreigners allowed’ signs? Sure, they’re around, but only for shops of ill-repute. > So sure, if you don’t look Japanese, you may find it harder to pay for sex in Japan. Cry me a river. > > We hear these stories of ‘this and this happened to my friend’ - “And he was totally sober and polite and well-dressed” etc etc. > Amazing how rare it is to hear a first-hand account. And I’ve been going out in Japan for 30 years, rented dozens of apartments etc in Japan, in big towns and small over those three decades, and have never had the slightest problem securing an apartment, getting into restaurants or respectable nightclubs, etc. > > Sure, the plural of anecdote is not ‘data’, but surely if the problem was really that widespread you’d think I would have come across an example or two after 30 years. > None of my circle of friends - almost all old-time Japan hands as well - have ever experienced it either. Odd. > > What does Japan have that I wish other countries had? Being a housewife is respected as a profession - women run the household, control the finances, etc. > Overall the country is clean, everything runs on time, it’s unbelievably safe. Crime is low. Misplace your wallet, you will almost certainly get it back, often with all the money still intact. > Literacy is close to 100%. > > What do i wish Japan had that other countries have? More acceptance for women that want careers. Urban planning is a disaster - Japanese towns are (there’s no real nice way to say this) ugly beyond belief. > As a whole Japan’s male population has an unpleasant and unhealthy attraction to underage girls in schoolgirl uniform. > > My ¥0.02. You must have a very small circle of friends > **[Japan racism survey reveals one in three foreigners experience discrimination](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/31/japan-racism-survey-reveals-one-in-three-foreigners-experience-discrimination)** > > Justice ministry sent survey to thousands of foreign residents to gain an unprecedented glimpse into their experiences ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/79 "2017-10-13T17:49:06Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > You must have a very small circle of friends > > [Japan racism survey reveals one in three foreigners experience discrimination | Japan | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/31/japan-racism-survey-reveals-one-in-three-foreigners-experience-discrimination) I am going to take self-reported claims of discrimination with a huge grain of salt unless we know the person’s language ability. I have personally seen first-hand cases of people assuming ‘discrimination’ when it was merely the person didn’t speak the language and assumed they were being turned away not because they hadn’t filled out the correct forms properly but because I’M NOT JAPANESE THESE RACISTS. My non-Japanese circle of friends is not very small, nor is it very big. I have more Japanese friends than non-Japanese friends, FWIW. I have lived and worked in Japan for 30 years but I do not ‘love’ Japan any more or less than the other countries where I’ve spent many years (US, UK, Hong Kong). Sure, you can find discrimination if you look for it. I’ve known people that didn’t seem to like foreigners all that much, until I realized they didn’t like _anybody_ all that much. You can also find discrimination even if it’s not there if you spend all your time looking for it, don’t bother learning the language, only hang out with non-Japanese friends and spend your nights trying to hook up with Japanese ladies, which seems to be the primary reason for 90% of English teachers in the country. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Are you white? I am. Many of my (non-Japanese) friends in Japan are not. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485/80 "2017-10-15T02:09:42Z")
Snap answer: Nothing “justifies” it. But it comes from being both insular and typically able to function as independent rather than being conquered by someone else. See also: the nation of England, the island of Manhattan, the city of Paris. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-justifies-japanese-sense-of-cultural-superiority/220485.md?page=3)