What justifies Japanese sense of cultural superiority?

Great Debates
41

A friend of mine went to Japan and absolutely hated it. He is filthy rich and makes big trips to Asia every other year. Japan is permanently off the list. What really made up his mind was when he was kicked out of nightclub for being white. Apparently he missed the “Japanese only sign”. He was sober, well behaved and well dressed.

Another guy I know was an exchange student there. He liked until his Dutch friend was shot dead by his exchange family’s father. Apparently he brought dishonor on their family, after having sex with a few girls. The Icelandic guy in question didnt experience anything else that he thought of as negative and has gonne there a few times since then… except the time when a human head came flying down in front of his car after a successfull suicide. Apparently a popular Japanese suicide method involves jumping of bridges with a noose hanging around ones neck. Often the head will fly of and the stretched rope will shoot the head back into the air and onto the bridge again depending on wind. That is the way he told me the story. The Japanese usually compete with Iceland and Finland for the biggest number of suicides per/cap, followed closely by Eastern European countries.

I want to touch on the subject of directing languages away from English. Someone noted this in the context that the Japanese were Xenophobic to the degree that they fight English influence in the use of its language as well. English usually incorporates Latin and Greek words to its language when inventing new words, such as video = I look. This seems to work well for English but may not work for languages.

Icelandic is the ex. I know best. Nouns in Icelandic can end in up to 24 different ways depending on context. Using Latin/English words just sound silly when used in Icelandic, because they cant be used the same way without sounding stupid. So we make up words just like English speaking ppl do or use old obscure words that arent really used anymore: Camera = Myndavel = Picture Machine; Monitor = Skjar = (a window made out of an animals stretched anmion to cover a window before the advent of glass).

I would imagine that the Japanese and the French do the same thing for good reasons.

42

I don’t understand what you mean, YourOldBuddy. Are you implying that French and Japanese don’t use English words? Let me assure you, nothing could be further from the truth. At least 10% of Japanese vocabulary is imported from English, with many, many “English” words invented in Japan, like “baby car” and “back mirror”. The French also use a plethora of English words daily, like “parking”, “week-end”, “shopping”, etc.

Second, random anecdotes don’t mean much. What your friend’s cousin’s ex-girlfriend saw when she was in Japan ten years ago might make good story-telling material but it’s hardly sociological data.

Yes, there are places that don’t allow foreigners, but you really have to go hunting for them, or just be really unlucky. However, Aeschines made a good point about racial superiority. It’s not really about the colour of your skin. The reason these people don’t want you in your business isn’t because they feel you are inferior. They don’t want you there because you stand out and they’re afraid that will bother other customers. Of course, in the extreme example of businesses that actually put signs out, this is fuelled by the stereotype of westerners as loud and boisterous. However, I must say that in five years, I’ve only seen two such signs and both were in Tokyo.

43

Aeschines:

Bang goes my Zen pilgrimage then. :smack:

So are there more popular alternatives, or is there just a general spiritual malaise?

44

I didnt mean to imply that the French and japanese dont use English words. Here’s what I said: “Someone noted this in the context that the Japanese were Xenophobic to the degree that they fight English influence in the use of its language as well.”

Im saying that fighting English may have nothing to do with Xenophobia for many ppl and everything to do with making ones language useable.

45

I have never seen a sign in Tokyo or anywhere else saying, “No foreigners,” nor have I ever been refused service or anything similar to that. I have been called “gaijin-san” only once by a person in a restaurant.

This type of racism is pretty darn rare, and it’s possible that certain people were not allowed in somewhere or kicked out of somewhere not chiefly because they were foreigners but because they looked like trouble or were actually causing it.

But as for smaller-scale ignorance, such as being referred to as “gaijin” in conversations at work or in private life, being asked ignorant questions, or just being treated as different when there was no need for it–hell yes, you will confrot such stupidity on a daily basis in Japan, and it does grate on the nerves.

I would not say that spirituality is dead in Japan. There are many newer religions, sometimes amalgams of Shinto and Buddhism, and Christianity is also bigger than many suspect. I have encoutered the Jehovah’s Witnesses here many times–native Japanese people knocking on your door or walking right up to you.

Further, belief in the “paranormal” is pretty darn high here, and such phenomena are treated by the media not so much as curiosities, but as realities.

46

Well, Brandus, since you seem to like the low-down on the Japanese that you’re gettting here (since it seems to agree with your preconceptions), maybe you’d like to see a lot more of it… just click on any of the “Discuss It” links… for some of the best whiny gaijin posts on the Net.

Guaranteed to make you stop wondering why they say “Yankee go home!”.

Why? Just because Aeschines said Buddhism is dead in Japan?

I suggest you do your own research, and I also assure you that there are a great many serious, devout Buddhists here. You generally don’t see them in The Ginza or Harajuku, though. The Zen Buddhist missionaries who started the movement in the U.S. are just as respected in Japan as they are in the U.S.

I know quite a few Christians who would argue that the existence of Jehovah’s Witnesses is not a measure of Christian influence. I’ve observed that foreigners are a preferred witnessing target… not that many Japanese are open to having their ancestral religious beliefs “challenged” in the way that JWs do it. LDS missionaries are common here, too, but they haven’t succeeded in getting any Buddhist temples razed to make room for Mormon tabernacles.

One more thing, Aeschines… since you’ve stated that you’re “completely fluent in the language”, how did you miss the fact that being called “gaijin-san” was the exact opposite of disrespect or racism? You wouldn’t compare cultural/transliteral apples and oranges in the case of a Japanese person addressing an elderly stranger as ojii-san (grandfather) or obaa-san (grandmother) as rude just because it might be rude in the same context in your own language, would you? Point being; unless a stranger knows your name, gaijin-san is a perfectly polite way to get your attention. Yes, okyaku-sama (Mr./Ms. Customer) would have been fine, too, assuming you were the only customer in the place.

The problem that I’ve noticed a lot of crabby foreigners in Japan have is they suffer from the “I’m special and unique, but I don’t want to be treated as special and unique” paradox.

Speaking of racism, I consider the strange habit of caucasian foreigners in Japan who wave, nod, or otherwise greet total strangers they see on the street who also appear to be caucasian, as racist. The test? Do you do that back home on a crowded city street? Why don’t you nod or say “hello” to all of the Japanese people you see? If a Japanese person doesn’t wave to an unfamiliar Asian face they see on the street in a foreign country, they aren’t doing anything differently than they would be doing back home in Japan.

47

First, I disagree that Buddhism is dead in Japan. Or rather, I believe that it is not any more dead than it’s been at any other time in history. You need to understand that many western people have a somewhat warped and idealized vision of Buddhism in Japan. One of the most shocking aspects, perhaps, to many foreigners is the fact that religion is a business and is run as such. I did a concert in a somewhat famous Kyoto temple recently, and one of the guys in our group said, after seeing the premises: “Wow, these guys must be making a lot of money!” It wasn’t meant to be a particularly negative comment.

Spiritually, what Japanese consider Buddhism and what Westerners consider Buddhism is very different. That’s why I don’t introduce myself as Buddhist anymore, because people will assume I have a butsudan at home and recite namu amida butsu all day long.

At first glance, Christianity might seem more present than it actually is. Many Christians are very in-your-face, but in terms of actual numbers IIRC, it’s less than 1% of the total population.

As long as you don’t assume that everyone with a shaved head is a holy-person, if you search you can find many good teachers and dedicated disciples. I wouldn’t scratch that pilgrimage off your future projects.

48

I didn’t live in Tokyo, so I don’t know, but it definitely happens in the “boonies”, and it didn’t seem all that rare to me. Like I said, I was denied service more than once, and if you met me, I’m sure you’d agree that I don’t “look like trouble”.:slight_smile: When my American friends and I visited really outlying areas, children would often point and shout “Gaijin!”, but I think the kids were just excited to see foreigners because they rarely came in contact with them.

I think I know why the discrimination was happening in this particular area; apparently there had been some trouble the previous year with some US Servicemen, and I suspect that the business owners just assumed all Americans they saw were GIs (I am not in the military). But then, when you make an assumption about someone based only on the color of his skin, isn’t that pretty much the definition of racism?

49

It’s a bit pathetic to hear people who come here of their own free will who keep on harping about how racist the Japanese supposedly are towards foreigners. Particularly when quite a large number of them are males who come here because they’ve heard that Japanese women are just dyin’ to meet 'em! Oh, wait… maybe that’s just sexism… not really racism, huh? One sure sign of one of these neo-colonialist types is statements like “You’ve gone native!” or “You’re not one of those foreigners that tries to ‘get into’ the culture here, are you? Gag!”

The way that Japanese people who have had little or no experience with people from outside their own country behave toward foreigners isn’t at all that unusual.
How many people do you know in your own country who don’t react differently to someone who’s obviously not from “around here”?

I remember a lot of quite bitter complaints when I was in university from students about professors from other lands whose English wasn’t quite up to the students’ standards. Racist? No… “If they wanna come over here and teach, they oughta learn to speak the language! Damned furriners!”

blowero, when little Japanese kids point at me and say “Gaijin!”, I just grin and point back and say “Nihonjin!”.

Now, if you really want to discuss xenophobic racism in Japan, we should be talking about the governor of Tokyo, good old Ishihara Shintaro.

50

What a fascinating thread. It’s been a long time since I’ve enjoyed reading a debate this much. Just a quick question if you don’t mind. What’s the difference between the terms Gaijin and Gaikokujin ?

51

I think you need to read my post again; it wasn’t a complaint at all. And I certainly wasn’t asking for advice on how to deal with Japanese children, since childrens’ curiosity does not bother me in the least. You seem somewhat on the defensive in the way you reacted to my post; perhaps you misconstrued my meaning.

52

Gluteus, yeah gain some maturity and actual experience in this country, and then come back to these boards and blab. Yer full of shit.

“Gaijin” and “gaikokujin”–the difference. The difference is the character “koku,” which means “country.” “Gaikokujin” is the more formal and serious word that means “foreigner.” It sounds like a word from a book. “Gaijin” is the word people use when they want to say all manner of prejudicial and stupid things about foreigners.

53

Jovan,

Buddism is dead in Japan. I mean, really. Whether it’s a business or not, people don’t take it seriously and really make it a part of their lives.

54

I disagree. It’s true that many, many people don’t give a damn about religion in any shape or form but that doesn’t mean that Buddhism is dead. If it were, temples would go out of business and they don’t. If Buddhism is dead, then who bothers to put aprons on the jizo statues? If Buddhism is dead, then why does Internet Town Page list 722 butsudan (Buddhist altar) stores for Tokyo prefecture only?

I’m a bit disapointed that you would make such a blatant generalization. Just because a large part of the population doesn’t incorporate some form of Buddhism in their daily lives doesn’t mean that another large part of the population doesn’t.

Gozu, gaikokujin means “foreigner”. The characters mean outside-country-person, and the word applies for anyone who doesn’t hold Japanese citizenship. It is often, wrongly, used to refer to anyone not born in Japan. Gaijin, as far as the dictionary definition is concerned, can mean two things: either it’s a simple contraction of gaikokujin, or it translates as “outsider”. That’s what these words denote. Where there’s a bit of disagreement and confusion is related to what they connote. Pretty much everyone agrees that gaikokujin is neutral and non-insulting. For my views on gaijin see my post on the previous page.

55

Jovan,

I’ve actually got a cite for you, a book I read back in the late 90s:

Ima no otera ni bukkyou ha nai (There is no Buddhism in today’s temples) by Makoto Endou.

He pretty much agrees with you that Buddhism is now a business–but it’s only a business and has nothing to do with religion or spirituality.

As for butudan, they’re what old people use to “kuyou” their departed loved ones; and, yes, sometimes they do Buddhist rituals in front of one (I’ve seen that done in one family).

It’s folk religion at best. Jizo is folk religion.

Now, I’m not putting down folk religion. I’ll even throw a coin in the jinja bucket now and then (not Buddhism, but still a part of that same amalgam that serves as religion in this country nowadays).

A buchou at my old company was the son of a high-level monk. Even the monks don’t really believe the teachings of the “faith.”

So, maybe we’re arguing a bit as cross purposes. I don’t want to give the impression to Dopers that all the temples have shut down. That ain’t true. But let’s also avoid giving them the impression that people go home from work, read the texts in the original Pali, then meditate for a few hours…

56
  1. Ninjas
  2. Samurai
  3. Giant Anime Fighting Robots
57

I’m wondering how long you have lived in Japan for this to be true. Or what parts you have visited. Maybe for businesses in Tokyo, but a surprising number of Japanese are still incredibly racist to anyone not Japanese. It’s not because they think you will be loud or because they think you won’t understand Japanese. They’ll give you those excuses to be sure, but you can stand there and talk to them in Japanese and some people will still say, “I’m so sorry, but you can’t because you can’t understand Japanese.” or “you can’t because you don’t look Japanese.”

It’s changing and it’s a LOT less than it used to be. But this still exists. I don’t think my boyfriend and Japanese friends would tell me that because I am white I am considered less of a person than they are unless it were true. I also can’t see why people born in Japan are not considered Japanese citizens unless there was racism involved.

Check out Arudou Debito’s website. For the experiences and testimonies of a person who became a naturalized Japanese citizen in 2000. He has pictures of signs that forbid non-Japanese from entering places and said the signs were still in place as of this year. He also said that he has still be refused entrance despite showing the people proof that he is a Japanese citizen. He sued a bathhouse for refusing him entrance and won.

Here is an essay by NPR’s Tokyo Correspondent Eric Weiner on racism in Japan.

From the article

This hasn’t stopped most of my friends from wanting to live and work in Japan. And it has just made me want to visit more. (my boyfriend thinks I am crazy.) But racism is still a huge problem in Japan and I am astounded you have not encountered it yet.

58

Ava,

I hear you. No disagreement with what you wrote. Regarding the issues of “foreignness,” “Japaneseness,” etc., there is a vapor of ignorance that one must breathe here daily. I just don’t want people to think that hard-core, ideological white-supremecy-style racism is common here.

59

“Ignorance” is a very good word for it – I think most of the stuff non-Japanese have to deal with comes from plain ignorance, and not from outright hatred. I actually have experienced more hateful racism as a white person in America than I ever did in Japan.

60

First, we need to recap the following:

  1. Some Japanese, a small minority nowadays IME, believe that non-Japanese are inferior.
  2. Some Japanese believe that Japanese people are inferior and that foreigners are cool by definition.
  3. Some Japanese believe that foreigners can’t behave and will often cause trouble.
  4. Some Japanese believe that almost all foreigners can’t understand Japanese and that will lead them to cause trouble.

It’s maybe not the case but your posts make it sound like you have a monolithic view of racist attitudes in Japan. I don’t know who “they” are. All sorts of people have all sorts of motivations, but in fact, it’s important to note that nowadays feelings of racial superiority are usually not the cause for discrimination.

Incidentally, I have found that Tokyo had the greatest amount of open discrimination - and I have lived and often travel in very remote places.

That being said, I must stress, again, that hard-core discrimination is fairly uncommon. Essentially, in my life, it’s a non-issue. This brings us to Arudou Debito. This guy has made it one of his life’s purpose to hunt down blatant racism in Japan. Of course he has pictures of signs; he’s actively looking for them. IMO, his cause is noble but he often comes off as a bit too angry and aggressive. However, as he himself writes:

There are a number of assholes and ignorant people in Japan. Arudou is out to expose them, and you should not make broad statements about the totality, or even the majority, of Japanese people based on their actions.

Buddhism hijack, final comment:

And it’s important for people to understand that things were never this way. See what Dogen, Ikkyu, Honen, or Hakuin had to say about their fellow monks. Buddhism, as a practice close to the teachings of Gautama, has always been very marginal in Japan. To be a Buddhist in Japan means holding certain superstitious beliefs, and performing certain rituals. Those have, in fact, often little to do with basic Buddhist doctrine but it’s what “Buddhism” means in Japan. In that sense, as long as people will pray to Jizo, hold funerals in temples, recite namu amida butsu, copy sutras, go on pilgrimages, practice kuyo, etc. Buddhism will not be dead in Japan. Unless, of course, you hold that this was never Buddhism, in which case, it was never more than marginally alive in Japan.