# What kind of 19th c. Uniform is this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 31, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473 "2013-03-31T23:29:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473/21 "2013-04-01T17:58:18Z")
Okay, given that Ireland isn’t really a member of the UK, why is UK royalty dressing up as Irish anything? Is this for Northern Ireland or something? ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473/22 "2013-04-01T18:40:27Z")
Ireland was joined to England as a separate country from Henry II’s time starting 1169 — joint kingdoms without being merged, same as Austria-Hungary. Technically, until Henry VIII, the ruler’s title was Lord of Ireland. In 1603 the Stuart united England+Wales, Scotland, and Ireland into one monarchy; in 1707 this was established as a Union: Great Britain & Ireland. in 1801 as a new state: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Then in 1922 the Irish seceded and became a Free State ( much as the Confederacy sought ) and finally a Republic. Since when they have been a country with fine incorruptable politicians, honest bankers, the romping of sturdy children and the laughter of happy maidens. Hand in hand until recently with the venerable wisdom and moral teaching of the Catholic Church. Ireland was longer united under the English than ever before or since. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473/23 "2013-04-02T02:26:51Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > Okay, given that Ireland isn’t really a member of the UK, why is UK royalty dressing up as Irish anything? > Is this for Northern Ireland or something? They’re not dressing up as anything Irish. He’s wearing the uniform of an officer in the Irish Guards, which is a regiment of the British army. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473/24 "2013-04-02T02:32:35Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > He’s the fat bloke on the right – Queen Victoria’s eldest son, later [Edward VII](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_VII) > [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Of “in the can” fame. > [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > NOPE > > “The tobacco was personally named by R. J. Reynolds after Edward VII, who was known as Prince Albert before being crowned King.” > > [Wiki cite.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Albert_(tobacco)) “NOPE”? What are you disagreeing with? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473/25 "2013-04-02T03:31:45Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > … in 1707 this was established as a Union: Great Britain & Ireland. in 1801 as a new state: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. No, the 1707 Act of Union was only between England & Wales, and Scotland. Ireland was not part of the 1707 Union and continued to have a separate Parliament. Ireland was added to the United Kingdom in 1801, when its Parliament was abolished and instead its members were elected to the Westminster Parliament. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473/26 "2013-04-02T03:32:51Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > “NOPE”? What are you disagreeing with? I assume **74westy** ’s response, since deleted. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473/27 "2013-04-02T03:51:11Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I assume **74westy** ’s response, since deleted. Ah. That makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473/28 "2013-04-02T03:53:08Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > No, the 1707 Act of Union was only between England & Wales, and Scotland. Ireland was not part of the 1707 Union and continued to have a separate Parliament. > > Ireland was added to the United Kingdom in 1801, when its Parliament was abolished and instead its members were elected to the Westminster Parliament. Technically, yes: but the unwary would conclude from that that Ireland was not part of the equation: the King — or usurper as the case may be — was still King of Ireland since 1542, and the Harp was quartered in the Royal Arms. As I said, the 1707 Union made it Great Britain [ now England+Scotland ) _plus_ Ireland. The Irish parliament was even more worthless than most parliaments. [And was as dominated by the aristocracy as was the Polish; and as full of lawyers as the American.] ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473/29 "2013-04-02T12:17:09Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I assume **74westy** ’s response, since deleted. Exactly. He disputed my first post and I followed up with a cite. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473/30 "2013-04-02T16:25:56Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Exactly. He disputed my first post and I followed up with a cite. Sorry everyone especially Hypno-Toad. I editing the post before I saw Hypno-Toad’s reply because even I could see it was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473/31 "2013-04-02T18:13:14Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > They’re not dressing up as anything Irish. He’s wearing the uniform of an officer in the Irish Guards, which is a regiment of the British army. So… ethnic Irish, at least supposedly, and UK citizens enlisted in the British army? ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473/32 "2013-04-02T19:05:56Z")
Uh, you’re not getting it: Ireland was not a separate independent state from the 12th century to the 20th century; it was part of the English Crown, and all Irishmen had the right to travel and settle anywhere in the British Isles, join any armed force, marry, etc., just like any Englishman, Welshman or the rest. They were persecuted and oppressed in Ireland, but that was mainly due to them being RC, rather than different. Even now there is a special relationship giving people of the Republic rights to vote, join the Army etc. in GB; but back in the 19th century there were a lot of Irishmen in the British Army, and only some were in the Irish regiments, such as the Connaught Rangers, the Irish Guards, etc… **[Wiki: Irish Regiments](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Defunct_Irish_regiments_of_the_British_Army)** Plus, even when the Irish Free State was neutral in WWII, and fearful of both sides; many Irishmen joined the British Army despite not having to, and despite it being the earlier enemy during the War for Independence. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473/33 "2013-04-02T19:11:27Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > So… ethnic Irish, at least supposedly, and UK citizens enlisted in the British army? It isn’t necessarily an issue of ethnicity. Unionists from Northern Ireland, many of whom would consider themselves to be Irish as well as British, reasonably enough tend to prefer to serve in a regiment that associates itself with that bit of Ireland that is still part of the UK, as opposed to the other regiments that instead associate themselves with England, Scotland or Wales. But, like those other regiments, the Irish Guards also includes soldiers from throughout the UK. And it is not unknown for men from the Irish Republic to serve in British regiments, including, for those same reasons, the Irish Guards. So the fact that Prince William is their colonel-in-chief is hardly some inexplicable anomaly. Certainly no more anomalous than the fact that until 2000 their colonel was the [Grand Duke of Luxembourg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean,_Grand_Duke_of_Luxembourg). Who, to be fair, had a much closer connection with that regiment than Nicholas II ever had with the Royal Scots Greys. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473/34 "2013-04-02T20:21:31Z")
> [@APB](#): > > I’m fairly sure that Nicholas II is wearing a version of one of the uniforms of the Royal Scots Greys. Much like some of those in [this picture](http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1900-BOER-WAR-OFFICERS-2ND-DRAGOONS-ROYAL-SCOTS-GREYS-/160735922359). > > [He had worn the full dress uniform for his arrival in Scotland.](http://www.rusartnet.com/russia/history/romanov/tsar-nicholas-ii-in-scotland) Just to clearly answer the OP, Nicholas II was Honorary Colonel of the Royal Scots Greys and is wearing the dark blue officer’s frock coat with flat “cavalry” braid worn as part of the regiment’s undress uniform. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-19th-c-uniform-is-this/654473.md?page=1)