# What kind of (American English) accent is this? Is it an accent or an affectation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 13, 2017, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358 "2017-12-13T03:27:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/41 "2017-12-16T10:48:07Z")
> [@Sternvogel](#): > > Actually, the phrase is “Shabbos goy” (or “Shabbes goy”), a non-Jew who is available to perform on the Sabbath (Shabbos) tasks, such as lighting fires, that are prohibited for observant Jews during that time. I don’t think el-Hajj Malik el-Shabazz (as Malcolm X was known after completing his pilgrimage to Mecca) ever served in such a role. Understood, and I just want to note that the error wasn’t mine but was in the quoted article. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/42 "2017-12-16T11:08:18Z")
One more point: I have a theory (straying well into the realm of speculation, here) that this man might have trained as a priest. Contrary to UDS’s suggestion of a Protestant background, he sounds to me like someone educated by the Christian Brothers who went on to the novitiate and studied at Maynooth. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/43 "2017-12-16T12:59:27Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I’m sorry, I don’t remotely hear the similarity there. That sounds more like a New Zealand accent to me… > I agree with the poster who says it sounds more like the “trans-atlantic” accent - i.e. an upper-class American trying to sound posh - than what I have heard of Irish accents. Definitely not New Zealand. But something in the timbre of the voice and the very rigid way his jaw seems to be fixed, still says some sort of Canadian to me. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/44 "2017-12-16T14:41:49Z")
Which Canadian accent? Does it sound like any accent in these videos? The videos contain a number of Canadians speaking, so indicate where in the video you hear the accent: Feel free to link to any video you can find with the Canadian accent you're talking about. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/45 "2017-12-16T14:45:47Z")
I’m not super familiar with the various Newfie accents, but is it possible that what we perceive as Irish being a tinge of those Newfie accents that are colored by southeastern Irish accents? Regardless of what it is, there’s clear Irish sounds in there. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/46 "2017-12-16T22:41:20Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > Here are some well-known RTÉ broadcasters - let me know if you think these accents are similar: > > [Gay Byrne](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd8CfvF9P-E) > > [Mike Murphy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayNA8SpTraU&t=17s) > > [Pat Kenny](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8x3sr4cCXE&t=27s) > > [Marian Finucane](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8mkjiBzc7w) Mike Murphy’s accent IMO sounds by far the most similar to the guy in the OP. **PatrickLondon,** I was saying that the Rhodesian accent sounded like a New Zealand accent to me - not that I thought the accent of this absurd and - at this point - perversely intriguing neo-Nazi was a New Zealand accent. I was, in fact, so determined to pinpoint the identity of this man, and thereby his accent, that I jumped down a ridiculous rabbit hole of researching the 80s-era “Aryan Nations” group and googling whatever names I could find which were in any way connected with the gathering depicted in the documentary. I’m still drawing a blank on this character. He was obviously important enough to these people that he was a featured speaker at their event, but apparently nobody bothered to write his name down, including the people who created the documentary. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/47 "2017-12-17T11:59:02Z")
Me too, I had a go at that, and got nowhere. Sorry I misunderstood the point about New Zealand. As for what makes me think he’s Canadian, or has spent time there, I was thinking of older generations of speaking styles. There’s something about the way both [Mackenzie King](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo9kj4-CZqM) and [Lester Pearson](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnt0KTb6ymw) say “countr-eh”, and Pearson in particular seems to pronounce some of his “r” sounds far back against his molars (which seems to me to require or is the result of a rigid setting of the jaw) that this chap seems to have in common with them. Not so much a question of accent as rhetorical style when making speeches, perhaps - maybe some US politicians of an older generation speechified that way too? I was also reminded a bit of [Bernard Braden, who’s the unseen interviewer here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFPqDUQKmt8). ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/48 "2017-12-18T19:43:24Z")
I saw _The Disaster Artist_, the movie about [Tommy Wiseau,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Wiseau) and it caused me to again wonder about people with weird accents and whether or not they’re “real” or affectations. (Wiseau claims to be from Louisiana but has a weird accent that sounds like a cross between German and some kind of speech impediment.) Because someone mentioned William F. Buckley, I looked up some clips of him. I found [this debate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYymnxoQnf8) between Buckley and Gore Vidal. I found _Vidal’s_ accent to be far closer to the one in the OP than Buckley’s. These are upper-class, old-money accents. I find it unlikely, though not impossible, that anyone from that social stratum would find himself wearing a fake camouflage uniform and delivering a speech about the “fecundity” of the “other peoples of the world” to a crowd of morons inside a Quonset Hut in Bumfuck, Michigan. But it’s probably possible for an autodidactic weirdo who has spent a lot of time perfecting an affected persona to emulate such an accent. Either that, or he’s just some stripe of Irishman, as so many seem to think. But one who apparently went to a “good school” where they teach you to sound more English than Irish? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/49 "2017-12-18T19:58:21Z")
My theory of why nobody knows his identity, and his accent is so strange, is that he’s a time traveler from an extremely dystopian future. Prove me wrong! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/50 "2017-12-18T21:00:32Z")
> [@Nansbread1](#): > > No Irish at all in there that i can detect. Very slight British accent from the south of England. The man has lived in the USA for a very long time and i guess for more than half his formative years. I’m from the West Country, and I heard my people very briefly when he said “… in this country,” with a bit of a flourish. But otherwise, definitely not. I hear American,\* and something I can’t identify that I suppose must be repressed Irish given the responses from Irish posters. I do think that this accept is affected to a substantial degree. \*I’m not sure exactly _what_ American accent I’m hearing. I actually hear a hint of [Buddy Hackett](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFv-Py_S1YU) in there. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/51 "2017-12-18T21:42:04Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > … > These are upper-class, old-money accents. I find it unlikely, though not impossible, that anyone from that social stratum would find himself wearing a fake camouflage uniform and delivering a speech about the “fecundity” of the “other peoples of the world” to a crowd of morons inside a Quonset Hut in Bumfuck, Michigan. > … Or else America’s vaunted fluidity of social status/affluence/geography has established Bumfuck Michigan [Lock Jaw.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Atlantic_accent) USA! USA! Actually, that cite mentions UK-residence as a formative. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/52 "2017-12-19T08:07:12Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > But it’s probably possible for an autodidactic weirdo who has spent a lot of time perfecting an affected persona to emulate such an accent. > > Either that, or he’s just some stripe of Irishman, as so many seem to think. But one who apparently went to a “good school” where they teach you to sound more English than Irish? It’s entirely possible for a deracinated autodidactic weirdo to affect that sort of persona and accent and to use it to promote assorted fascist/racist nonsense - and it’s not at all unknown for [people who grow up somewhat on the margin as between Ireland, Britain and the US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Joyce#Early_life) to be all of those as well. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/53 "2018-03-22T23:20:47Z")
I had to bump this thread after I noticed that Arthur Jones, the Nazi from Illinois, is shown in [this HuffPo article](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/arthur-jones-republican-nomination_us_5a77d3f6e4b0905433b5bd84) giving a speech in front of the exact same flag in the video in the OP. THE FECUNDITY RATES OF THE OTHER PEOPLES OF THE WORLD! ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/54 "2018-07-08T18:50:53Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Irish. Rural. Probably the southern half of the country. Middle or upper-middle class. Probably Protestant. But he has spent a good deal of time in the United States. Are there a lot of Protestants in the Southern part of Ireland?? I’d still like to know the answer to this OP, if anyone’s still interested. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/55 "2018-07-08T19:22:22Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I had to bump this thread after I noticed that Arthur Jones, the Nazi from Illinois, is shown in [this HuffPo article](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/arthur-jones-republican-nomination_us_5a77d3f6e4b0905433b5bd84) giving a speech in front of the exact same flag in the video in the OP… I’m not in the mood to watch this, but I take it this is a different guy from the one in OP, and from a different part of the US, and [maybe] you are suggesting that we/you have identified an in-group speech affectation/inflection independent of regional accent? “How To Talk Like an American White Supremacist?” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/56 "2018-07-08T20:54:47Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Are there a lot of Protestants in the Southern part of Ireland?? Not very many. It looks like about 4% of the population (roughly 200,000 people) of the Republic of Ireland (overall) is Protestant, most of them either Church of Ireland or Presbyterian. Interestingly, a significant minority of Irish Protestants are immigrants to Ireland. > **[Protestantism in the Republic of Ireland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland)** > > Protestantism in the Republic of Ireland refers to Protestantism in the Republic of Ireland and its predecessor, the Irish Free State. Protestants who are born in the Republic of Ireland are Irish Citizens. Protestants who are born in Northern Ireland are British and / or Irish depending on their political identity and whether they choose to exercise their right to claim Irish citizenship on the same basis as anywhere else on the island of Ireland (while there is a strong correlation between na... ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/57 "2018-07-08T21:58:36Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Are there a lot of Protestants in the Southern part of Ireland?? > > I’d still like to know the answer to this OP, if anyone’s still interested. I’m not sure whether you mean the geographical southern part of Ireland or the Republic as a whole, but either way there are some, more in some areas than others. They are a minority but I have neighbours and co-workers who are from Protestant backgrounds, and my grandmother’s father was a Protestant from Co. Carlow. It would be a mistake to think that Protestants can in general be distinguished by their accents, or that they are all “posh” - a working-class Dublin Protestant would sound very much like a working-class Dublin Catholic. The answer to the OP is that this is a fairly standard (of its time) Irish received pronunciation, a learned accent similar to that of [Eamon Andrews](https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ook92o2XwcY), for example, or Mike Murphy as noted previously. The underlying regional accent is so obscured that we can only guess, but I’m confident that it’s from the southern half of the country. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/58 "2018-07-09T01:44:47Z")
I hear what you all are referring to in the first couple of sentences, but as he goes on there is more a hint of affected German than Irish. An added argument against that is that would be extremely unusual for these White Supremacist groups to accept an Irish person anyway. They don’t consider us to be Aryan. The KKK is as much against Irish Catholics as they are against black folks and hispanic people. They are more active against brown-skinned folks, probably just because it’s easier to pick them out of a crowd, but they don’t accept us either. It’s an insecure guy trying to sound cosmopolitan and pretend to have European culture. Possibly he has a parent from another country, but that’s not my guess. I honestly think it’s a pure affectation. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/59 "2018-07-09T18:56:47Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > The answer to the OP is that this is a fairly standard (of its time) Irish received pronunciation, a learned accent similar to that of [Eamon Andrews](https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ook92o2XwcY), for example, or Mike Murphy as noted previously. The underlying regional accent is so obscured that we can only guess, but I’m confident that it’s from the southern half of the country. I was skeptical of this explanation, but I watched that linked video and goddamn if you aren’t right on the money. I had absolutely _no idea_ that there were Irish people who spoke that way. It doesn’t sound anything like what I think of as an Irish accent, it sounds much more like a combination of a posh English accent with an American accent. But I guess now I’ve learned something new. > [@](#): > > An added argument against that is that would be extremely unusual for these White Supremacist groups to accept an Irish person anyway. They don’t consider us to be Aryan. The KKK is as much against Irish Catholics as they are against black folks and hispanic people. They are more active against brown-skinned folks, probably just because it’s easier to pick them out of a crowd, but they don’t accept us either. There doesn’t really seem to be any universal white-supremacist dogma, there are hundreds of different groups and all of them have their own weird ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358/60 "2018-07-09T19:03:35Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I was skeptical of this explanation, but I watched that linked video and goddamn if you aren’t right on the money. I had absolutely _no idea_ that there were Irish people who spoke that way. It doesn’t sound anything like what I think of as an Irish accent, it sounds much more like a combination of a posh English accent with an American accent. But I guess now I’ve learned something new. > > There doesn’t really seem to be any universal white-supremacist dogma, there are hundreds of different groups and all of them have their own weird ideas. And maybe they each have their own in-group accents. Sort of like having different button designs all sort of swastiky. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-american-english-accent-is-this-is-it-an-accent-or-an-affectation/804358.md?page=4)