# What kind of bartender can't mix a martini? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2019, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250 "2019-09-15T05:32:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/121 "2019-09-19T03:04:58Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > What’s your take on this one? One shot each of Bacardi 151 (it’s no longer produced), Crème de cacao, and Kahlúa. It sounds like it would taste lovely and knock you on your ass. 🙂 You should give it a name! I was so sure there was already a drink made with those 3 things, I just had to look it up. Here’s what I learned about drinks that use your 3 suggested ingredients: If you added Bailey’s Irish Cream, you’d have a Diamondback Rattlesnake. If you substituted bourbon for the crème de cacao, you’d have a Gorilla Tit. If you substituted tequila for the crème de cacao, you’d have a Harbor Light #2. If you substituted crème de banane for the crème de cacao, you’d have a PRMF (Puerto Rican Monkey Fuck). If you omitted the crème de cacao and simply added cream, you’d have a Mad Cow. If you substituted tonic water for the cream in the above drink, you’d have a Mind Eraser #2. Great. Now I have to try 'em all. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/122 "2019-09-19T04:50:35Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > In my opinion it doesn’t count as a true supper club relish tray unless it includes kidney bean salad, sliced beets and cottage cheese. I can not envision such a monstrous combination. Any chance you could find a photo of a typical one? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/123 "2019-09-19T05:05:34Z")
> [@bump](#): > > WTF is pre-mix? And why would it be in an Old Fashioned? It’s [THIS](http://www.jero.com/) pig slop. I linked to it in Post #48. And it doesn’t belong in a properly made Old fashioned. It’s used by hacks that are too lazy or stupid to know how one is supposed to be made. Any barkeep that uses it isn’t even fit to tap suds at a frat house. > [@Green\_Bean](#): > > I can not envision such a monstrous combination. Any chance you could find a photo of a typical one? A proper supper club tray comes on a Lazy Susan and many include those items. Google “Supper Club relish tray” for some pics. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/124 "2019-09-19T05:05:40Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > It sounds like it would taste lovely and knock you on your ass. 🙂 You should give it a name! I concocted it years ago in Monterey and did, in fact, give it a name: _California Chocolate Milk_. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > I was so sure there was already a drink made with those 3 things, I just had to look it up. Here’s what I learned about drinks that use your 3 suggested ingredients: > > If you added Bailey’s Irish Cream, you’d have a Diamondback Rattlesnake. > > If you substituted bourbon for the crème de cacao, you’d have a Gorilla Tit. > > If you substituted tequila for the crème de cacao, you’d have a Harbor Light #2. > > If you substituted crème de banane for the crème de cacao, you’d have a PRMF (Puerto Rican Monkey Fuck). > > If you omitted the crème de cacao and simply added cream, you’d have a Mad Cow. > > If you substituted tonic water for the cream in the above drink, you’d have a Mind Eraser #2. > > Great. Now I have to try 'em all. 😉 Get back to us after you [del]recover[/del] try them. Oh, and what woudl be the “mocktail/virgin” versions of those? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/125 "2019-09-19T05:42:37Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > And you could actually get a glass of wine there. Red or white. From big jugs. I forget the brand. Years ago, my ex and I were on a road trip. I forget where we were, but we were hungry and pulled into a place that looked like they had both food and booze. I ordered a beer, but my wife preferred wine, and asked the server what the place had for wines. You know, Chardonnay, or Cabernet Sauvignon, or whatever. “Both kinds,” the server replied. “Red and white.” Holy Blues Brothers, Batman! Anyway, my ex ordered the white, which turned out to be (according to her) a rather nice Chardonnay. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/126 "2019-09-19T07:02:57Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > And you could actually get a glass of wine there. Red or white. From big jugs. I forget the brand. [Carlo Rossi?](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fbremerswineandliquor.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F06%2FCARLO-ROSSI-CHARDONNAY-4L.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fbremerswineandliquor.com%2Fshop%2Fcarlo-rossi-chardonnay%2F&docid=6AKXNMwf2idoDM&tbnid=kM28l5rGkYwmEM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjV9J-uqNzkAhXrna0KHVVpAKcQMwhFKAAwAA..i&w=971&h=1800&bih=789&biw=1600&q=carlo%20rossi%20chardonay%204%20liter&ved=0ahUKEwjV9J-uqNzkAhXrna0KHVVpAKcQMwhFKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/127 "2019-09-19T07:57:26Z")
I’ve always wondered what it is that drives certain tihngs to be quite popular in one place, but disliked–or even detested–in other places. For example, years ago, there was one small place in Roppongi that my friend and I loved to frequent. The joint happened to have two items prominently displayed and for quite the price: Four Roses and Ripple. Neither of us knew about the former, but the latter one being so esteemed slayed us. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/128 "2019-09-19T12:29:51Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > It’s [THIS](http://www.jero.com/) pig slop. I linked to it in Post #48. > > And it doesn’t belong in a properly made Old fashioned. It’s used by hacks that are too lazy or stupid to know how one is supposed to be made. Any barkeep that uses it isn’t even fit to tap suds at a frat house. Are Wisconsin Old Fashioneds usually an unholy red colour? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/129 "2019-09-19T13:30:32Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Are Wisconsin Old Fashioneds usually an unholy red colour? Definitely not. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/130 "2019-09-19T13:33:53Z")
Yes, they’re a very holy red color. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/131 "2019-09-19T14:42:25Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > What’s your take on this one? One shot each of Bacardi 151 (it’s no longer produced), Crème de cacao, and Kahlúa. Bacardi has gone 80 Proof straight across the board, but there are decent substitutes available, such as Cruzan Hurricane Proof 137(my overproof rum of choice), Bermudez 151, and the hard to find Lemon Hart & Son Overproof 151. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/132 "2019-09-19T15:08:56Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > It’s [THIS](http://www.jero.com/) pig slop. I linked to it in Post #48. > > And it doesn’t belong in a properly made Old fashioned. It’s used by hacks that are too lazy or stupid to know how one is supposed to be made. Any barkeep that uses it isn’t even fit to tap suds at a frat house. Gods… that site makes my skin crawl. Is it so hard to juice lemons and limes and have sugar syrup, vermouth, and bitters on hand? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/133 "2019-09-19T16:04:30Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I concocted it years ago in Monterey and did, in fact, give it a name: _California Chocolate Milk_. Sounds quite nice. I’d drink one. > [@Monty](#): > > Get back to us after you [del]recover[/del] try them. Oh, and what woudl be the “mocktail/virgin” versions of those? Probably a goal that will go unfulfilled in my Bucket List column, especially since Bacardi no longer makes their 151, but they do all sound nice. I can’t envision any “mocktail/virgin” versions of any of them. Got any ideas? I’d give up and start dishing out ice cream sundaes. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/134 "2019-09-19T18:34:35Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’ve always wondered what it is that drives certain tihngs to be quite popular in one place, but disliked–or even detested–in other places. For example, years ago, there was one small place in Roppongi that my friend and I loved to frequent. The joint happened to have two items prominently displayed and for quite the price: Four Roses and Ripple. Neither of us knew about the former, but the latter one being so esteemed slayed us. Coming from Rochester NY, Genesee products are the cheap local swill. I am always amused when I walk into a bar and see Gennie Cream Ale as a premium beer 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/135 "2019-09-19T19:50:52Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > **Re: layered drinks:**. In **Trader Vic’s Bartender’s Guide** , Vic told the story of a customer who ordered a pousse cafe on a busy night. The barkeep sweated to get the thing just right, trying to remember which liqueurs were the heaviest, then proudly served it up glowing with color. > > The guy showed it off to the table, then downed it like a straight shot. Something similar happened to the father of a friend of mine, except that after the customer showed it off, he stirred it. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/136 "2019-09-20T00:02:07Z")
If an Old Fashioned is red, it means that they’re using bright red “supermarket maraschino” cherries, and pouring way too much of the juice in your drink. > [@aruvqan](#): > > Coming from Rochester NY, Genesee products are the cheap local swill. I am always amused when I walk into a bar and see Gennie Cream Ale as a premium beer 😛 We have a bar where the hipsters drink Gennesee Cream Ale, and I wonder if it’s because it sounds exotic, yet familiar. There’s a Genesee Depot, Wisconsin… home of [Ten Chimneys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Chimneys)! The beautifully restored (and open to the public) home of vintage Broadway actors Lynn Fontanne and Alfred Lunt. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/137 "2019-09-20T00:12:01Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Coming from Rochester NY, Genesee products are the cheap local swill. I am always amused when I walk into a bar and see Gennie Cream Ale as a premium beer 😛 Old friend of mine attended the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor in the early ‘80s. Genesee Cream Ale was worshipped like a god. I couldn’t figure it out, either. Probably because it was difficult to obtain. I think Vernor’s Ginger Ale is a special treat here in the East, but it would be totally common in Ann Arbor. This would also explain the 1970s craze for the pigswill that is Coor’s beer, which was really hard to find east of the Mississippi. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/138 "2019-09-20T00:17:12Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > Something similar happened to the father of a friend of mine, except that after the customer showed it off, he stirred it. Yes, that would be _worse._ ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/139 "2019-09-20T00:45:12Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Yes, that would be _worse._ Are those weird rainbow drinks any good? What is in them? I don’t believe I’ve ever ordered anything more complicated than a portion of brandy (Cognac, Armagnac, Slivovitz, etc.) as a pousse-café, except maybe an Irish coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250/140 "2019-09-20T01:18:53Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Are those weird rainbow drinks any good? What is in them? I don’t believe I’ve ever ordered anything more complicated than a portion of brandy (Cognac, Armagnac, Slivovitz, etc.) as a pousse-café, except maybe an Irish coffee. I would certainly never order any of them. The idea is that you pour a heavy liqueur into the pousse-cafe glass, then slowly pour the next heaviest down a swizzle stick or something so that it makes the next layer, then keep going with lighter and lighter booze until you reach the top. If you’re choosing your drinks by mass, I can’t imagine that they would ever taste good in sequence. (You’re supposed to sip them off one layer at a time.) What’s in them? Christ knows. I’m not a big drinker of sweets. Stick with Cognac and Armagnac, maybe mix it up with a bit of Calvados. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-bartender-cant-mix-a-martini/840250.md?page=8)