What kind of economy does the Federation have in the Star Trek universe?

Cafe Society
21

One of the few things I liked about DS9 was that occasionally—albeit not very frequently—the writers would take a jab or two at this philosophy.

In “The Siege of AR-558,” Quark chids Nog on idolizing humans too much…

Or in the episode “Hard Time”…

…Which gives the viewer (this one, at least) the impression that much of the Federation’s “social advancement” is pretty much indoctrination and dogma. Indoctrination and dogma that works; dogma that actually *results in a happy and prosperous society…but that’s still less than ethically pure and true.

Oh, and in an old “Art of Star Trek” book I saw a few years ago, there was a reprinted “Okudagram” computer padd display from an episode where the Federation was conducting negotiations with an alien species, over the rights to use a wormhole. The padd made a reference of “Payment of 1,500,000 Federation credits” ([Cite, with another discussion of Federation ethics and economics](1,500,000 Federation credits)) for the wormhole. The padd was used onscreen, but was too small for a viewer to read. It at least makes the suggestion that the Federation has some official form of currency, if only for use with trading with other “less developed” species’.*

And DS9 writer Ronald D. Moore, on an AOL message board, once said that Starfleet has a secret, transgalactic “slush fund” set up for it’s officers to use when dealing with primitive economies.

This was in response to someone’s question of how Sisko pays for his drinks at Quark’s, if he doesn’t have a salary. It was obviously a joke, but it’s the explanation that I like the most. :slight_smile:

*Although, come to think of it, I don’t think there’s ever been any reference to Klingon currency, either. Does that mean that a violent, warlike civilization was still able to eliminate poverty, hunger, and crime? Whoa!

22

It’s likely that Klingons just go on the “If you can’t stop me taking this, than it’s mine” system. Instead of rent they have monthly fights. If you win, you get to stay.

In the rest of the universe, of course, the same system worked, since they were Klingons, and that will get you an awful lot of credit. :slight_smile:

23

This has been my interpretation for quite a while now. The whole idea that 24th Century humans are more highly evolved than their ancestors is just a bunch of mental masturbation.

Then again, most of us believe that we’re better than people from centuries past. And I strongly suspect that someone from the 18th or 19th Century could have pretty much the same conversation about us. So maybe Picard, Sisko, et al, are just being normal human beings.

As for happiness or productivity: we’ve seen so very little of civilian life that I don’t see how we could make such a judgement.
Personally, I haven’t seen anything which would lead me to believe that people in the Federation are more or less happy or productive than we are.

That might settle the matter. We know that people in the Original Series used credits as a form of currency. I’ve never seen Star Trek IV (except for a tiny bit of it) but this comment makes it sound like people in the Federation don’t consider credits to be money. That suggests a scenario where the Federation achieved a cashless society (all transactions handled electronically, with no physical notes or coins) and then everybody said “Yipee! We’ve eliminated money!”

Except that they still have a system of credits which serves the same purpose.

(Of course, I could just throw up my hands and admit that the writers made this crap up as they went along, but I’m tryin’ to find a workable real-world solution here :stuck_out_tongue: )

24

Well, all the 24th century starfleet “skippers” often claim that they’ve eliminated poverty, hunger, and crime. That counts for something, at least.

…Of course, the good captains might have been lying, misled by a deceptive government, or just choosing to believe propaganda that, deep down, they knew wasn’t really true. All because, like you said, we really haven’t seen much of Federation civilian life for ourselves. It’s a little like trying to guess what American civilian life was like in the 1940s, just by watching war movies.

And…as for the contradictory statements about money in the Federation made by the TOS-through-STVI crew, I’ve had a private theory…that, during the time of the movies, the Federation was just * phasing money out.*

I doubt that that’s the case…but hey, a guy can dream, can’t he?

25

Especially when 100% of helmsmen are Asian or black and 100% of starship captains are white (Sulu only got promoted because he hung around with Kirk). Maybe in the Trekverse the South won the Civil War?

Still, I suppose they managed to “evolve away” Hispanics. :rolleyes:

26

When Picard went home for R&R after his kidnapping by the Borg, didn’t his SIL say that his brother refused to have a replicator in the home? Now, is that akin to not having a microwave, or not having internet access? (which, following Diceman’s scenario, would mean the military don’t have to pay to get online.)

Also, there was a DS9 episode where Sisko had to take the place of a man named Bell, so the Bell riots could occur, which would be a defining moment in Federation history. They were locking up poor people in gulags, and then they all went on the “Net” to tell their stories to the world to show everyone they weren’t useless pieces of trash.

27

Oh, I forgot, Picard’s family had a vineyard (and even in All Good Things, an elderly Picard is shown tending his vines) so not all liquor is synthehol. There must still be a market for the real stuff, unless they don’t permit the real stuff on board starships.

There’s very little information on civilian life. There was an episode where three humans where awakened from cryostasis, and Picard seemed to hint to the A-type business man that his stocks were probably worthless, since Wall Street was long gone.

28

Uh, Sisko is black, last time I checked.

Wesley Crusher was helmsman for quite a while, and he was as white as they come.

29

Uh, Deep Space Nine wasn’t a starship, last time I checked. It’s also the best place in the whole UFP to send someone to get buried in paperwork and probably killed.

As for Wesley Crusher, he’s the most hated individual in the Trekverse including Neelix.

30

I’m sure I’ve seen other white helmsmen. I know I’ve seen distinctly alien ones. No cite, just an ill-spent childhood watching Star Trek all the time.

31

Well it sure worked out that way when civilizations discovered new frontiers on earth that had indigenous people on them already. :wink: I’m sure it would also work on a universal scale as well.

Pretty funny idea though. Money arises naturally out of barter, so even if all of “humanity” united that way (not, but for the sake of argument) that wouldn’t explain what happens in interplanetary trade. Not surprising as wish fulfillment in science fiction though.

32

Black, yellow or green, the Federation is an equal opportunities discriminator. White fellas still don’t drive their own vehicles.

33

LOL.

34

Star Trek is science fantasy, which means they can do all kinds of wacky things with technology and explain it away by saying ‘it’s the future’. They can transport matter instantaneously, they can travel faster than light, and they can make starships invisible. They don’t have to explain why. But that’s okay, because it just makes for good stories, and stories they couldn’t tell otherwise.

ButI think it’s also sociological fantasy: they’ve eliminated poverty and homelessness, and nobody has to go hungry or worry about where the next paycheck is coming from. Again, they don’t explain why. That’s the trouble with utopian fiction; they can say ‘Yes! Someday the world will be perfect if we work at it hard enough!’ but they conveniently forget to mention exactly how it was done.

35

Do a Web search for Gene Rodenberry’s Technology Unchained Utopia*. Or variants of this phrase (with or without the term Star Trek). You’ll find as much to read as you would searching for Bible interpretations.

And say to yourself: “__ ___ _ ___ _ ___ ____ ___ ____” *
(you can fill in the blanks, I know you know it. :slight_smile: )

*one of my pet Trek peeves. Member of the Nitpicker’s Guild since 1994. :dubious:

36

2nd * is spurious

37

I always saw Torres in Voyager as being Hispanic. (her human half anyway) Then they cast a white guy as her father. :rolleyes:

38

well it makes sense you can’t make dilithium crystals then, you wouldn’t get more energy out of them than it took to make them. so maybe its possible but would not get them more fuel.

39

Think about it.

If Gene Roddenberry actually KNEW how to cure poverty,
he would have done far better things with his life than to write silly sitcoms where he only pretended he did.

40

Tom Paris is a white helmsman. However, he was a convicted felon before Janeway picked him out for the job, so maybe that makes him effectively non-white.

“Eliminating poverty” doesn’t have to mean that everybody lives in a Jetsons mansion and has his own warp-shuttle… it may just mean that the Federation’s resources are so immense that the government can hand out BASIC food, clothing, and shelter to everyone who can’t or won’t earn his own credits.

Thus, by “official standards”, there is no poverty on Earth (and presumably other ‘first-tier’ Federation worlds), although we’ve certainly seen that there IS poverty on many ‘allied’ worlds, ‘unaligned’ worlds, ‘provisional membership’ worlds, and so forth.

What are the “official standards”? Who knows? But I’ll bet they’re low enough to encourage people to get off their butts and do some sort of practical work in order to earn a better lifestyle.

As for Picard’s assertion that “people work to better themselves and society”…

First off, Picard’s life is Starfleet. Most of the people he knows are Starfleet. There’s no evidence that Starfleet drafts anyone… they just wait for those highly-ambitious and inhumanly-capable people to come to THEM and FIGHT for the priviledge of working their butts off in extreme circumstances where they are often required to do the impossible.

Sure, there are a few perks… shore leave on Risa, free holodeck time, superb medical care… but for the most part, Starfleet personnel work for two reasons:

1.  They'd be BORED sitting on a beach somewhere for more than a couple of days.   Kirk gave a number of speeches on this very theme.

2.   They want to SHOW OFF!!!

That’s Starfleet. Maybe civilian life on a ‘first-tier’ Federation world is similar, maybe not. But the point is that, once material needs are taken care of (and technology is good at that), a person’s ambitions start to turn toward mental stimulation and RESPECT. You can’t get those by loafing on a beach with a replicated pina colada in your hand… you have to go out and DO something that others think is useful, or at least interesting.