# What kind of God would you believe in and follow **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643 "2013-03-22T15:12:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/241 "2013-03-28T05:39:31Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > My kind of God never harms anyone for anything. I am saddened that this drivel is still taught. Not even the Bible describes hell that bad. In the Bible hell is one of three words. The word for garbage dump, the word for void, the word for purgatory. The hell being preached comes from Dante’s Inferno. It was never Biblical. I studied this in college. All the people who were afraid need not be afraid. How do I know my God does harm anyone, I asked Him. “There is actually no need to punish as people punish themselves.” > > I know this is a departure from the OP but felt it necessary to clear the air. Listen to him, folks-his cites are the voices in his head. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/242 "2013-03-28T12:32:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Listen to him, folks-his cites are the voices in his head. I don’t hear voices in my head, kinda wish I did. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/243 "2013-03-28T12:42:47Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > My kind of God never harms anyone for anything. I am saddened that this drivel is still taught. Not even the Bible describes hell that bad. In the Bible hell is one of three words. The word for garbage dump, the word for void, the word for purgatory. The hell being preached comes from Dante’s Inferno. It was never Biblical. I studied this in college. All the people who were afraid need not be afraid. How do I know my God does harm anyone, I asked Him. “There is actually no need to punish as people punish themselves.” > > I know this is a departure from the OP but felt it necessary to clear the air. If there are many gods, and people create their own gods, then why shouldn’t some people follow a god that punishes the wicked? This thread has made it abundantly clear that the “ideal god” varies tremendously from person to person. While my ideal god would be utterly detached from human affairs, I see at least as much value in a god that punishes evil as I do in one that punishes no one. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/244 "2013-03-28T12:50:57Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t hear voices in my head, kinda wish I did. With all these gods running around, do they ever get in each other’s way? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/245 "2013-03-28T13:36:06Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > If there are many gods, and people create their own gods, then why shouldn’t some people follow a god that punishes the wicked? This thread has made it abundantly clear that the “ideal god” varies tremendously from person to person. While my ideal god would be utterly detached from human affairs, I see at least as much value in a god that punishes evil as I do in one that punishes no one. Yes, it would appear that way. But bad choices and bad actions are their own punishment. Sometimes called the law of attraction, this “law” assures that no one gets away with anything. We who watch may think they do but we can’t see the turmoil of their lives including future lives. So God has no reason to punish because of the way the universe is set up. As always people may follow any God they choose to follow. Most just follow the Gods of their parents until they are able to break out of the mind set and really start learning and growing. They usually go from believing in some God then become disillusioned and atheistic. Later as their knowledge grows they will pick another God, over and over again until they know which one they will believe in and follow forever. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/246 "2013-03-28T13:38:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > With all these gods running around, do they ever get in each other’s way? Nah, heaven is enormous ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/247 "2013-03-28T13:44:27Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Yes, it would appear that way. But bad choices and bad actions are their own punishment. Sometimes called the law of attraction, this “law” assures that no one gets away with anything. We who watch may think they do but we can’t see the turmoil of their lives including future lives. So God has no reason to punish because of the way the universe is set up. > > As always people may follow any God they choose to follow. Most just follow the Gods of their parents until they are able to break out of the mind set and really start learning and growing. They usually go from believing in some God then become disillusioned and atheistic. Later as their knowledge grows they will pick another God, over and over again until they know which one they will believe in and follow forever. > [@lekatt](#): > > Nah, heaven is enormous. I admire your doggedness and imagination. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/248 "2013-03-28T13:56:46Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I admire your doggedness and imagination. Thanks, I needed that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/249 "2013-03-28T14:03:45Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Nah, heaven is enormous Yes, but Earth isn’t. Surely some of these gods have conflicting interests when it comes to ultimate goals and the methods used to acheive them. Is there a heirarchy when it comes to these gods, or is it every god for her/him/itself? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/250 "2013-03-28T14:04:24Z")
[quote=“lekatt, post:245, topic:653643”] Yes, it would appear that way. But bad choices and bad actions are their own punishment. Sometimes called the law of attraction, this “law” assures that no one gets away with anything. We who watch may think they do but we can’t see the turmoil of their lives including future lives. So God has no reason to punish because of the way the universe is set up. Hold on, now. Earlier you wrote that your god: > [@](#): > > Does not interfere with our choices > If we wish to harm ourselves or others it is permitted > Helps or guides us to learn how to make the right choices > Does not judge us or harm us in anyway Do I now understand you to mean that this god _does_, in fact, interfere with our choices, judges us, and harms us, by establishing this law you speak of that ensures that evil people pay for their transgressions? It seems meaningless to say that “God has no reason to punish because of the way the universe is set up”, unless it was not god who set it up that way. Is that the case? > [@lekatt](#): > > As always people may follow any God they choose to follow. Most just follow the Gods of their parents until they are able to break out of the mind set and really start learning and growing. They usually go from believing in some God then become disillusioned and atheistic. Later as their knowledge grows they will pick another God, over and over again until they know which one they will believe in and follow forever. What of the people who are perfectly happy with a vengeful, angry god, and feel no need to break out of that view? Are they mistaken in their beliefs? Is their god just as real as yours? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/251 "2013-03-28T14:17:33Z")
[quote=“Human\_Action, post:250, topic:653643”] > [@lekatt](#): > > Yes, it would appear that way. But bad choices and bad actions are their own punishment. Sometimes called the law of attraction, this “law” assures that no one gets away with anything. We who watch may think they do but we can’t see the turmoil of their lives including future lives. So God has no reason to punish because of the way the universe is set up. > > Hold on, now. Earlier you wrote that your god: > > Do I now understand you to mean that this god _does_, in fact, interfere with our choices, judges us, and harms us, by establishing this law you speak of that ensures that evil people pay for their transgressions? It seems meaningless to say that “God has no reason to punish because of the way the universe is set up”, unless it was not god who set it up that way. Is that the case? > > What of the people who are perfectly happy with a vengeful, angry god, and feel no need to break out of that view? Are they mistaken in their beliefs? Is their god just as real as yours? It is like I said: God does not punish or interfere with us but He does try to guide us if we are open to this guidance. The one who punishes is the one who does the bad deed. God does not interfere. If you remember the prodigal son story, it says more than appears on the surface. The son takes his fortune and goes to town. There he does everything wrong, he gambles. he falls into the wrong crowds and learns to do bad things. Soon he is broke and his “friends” deny him. So he becomes homeless and works for a pig farmer who allows him to eat with the pigs. He remembers his Father and goes to Him to ask for a job as servant. But his Father sees him coming and cooks a grand feast and clothes him with the finest for His son has returned home. I can’t decide for others only myself. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/252 "2013-03-28T14:28:33Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It is like I said: God does not punish or interfere with us but He does try to guide us if we are open to this guidance. > > The one who punishes is the one who does the bad deed. God does not interfere. Ok, this is perplexing. Are you basing this on a Transcendentalist idea that man is inherently good, and only corrupted by society, or what? Because the world has plenty of evil people who never punish themselves, or even consider themselves evil. > [@lekatt](#): > > If you remember the prodigal son story, it says more than appears on the surface. > The son takes his fortune and goes to town. There he does everything wrong, he gambles. he falls into the wrong crowds and learns to do bad things. Soon he is broke and his “friends” deny him. So he becomes homeless and works for a pig farmer who allows him to eat with the pigs. > > He remembers his Father and goes to Him to ask for a job as servant. But his Father sees him coming and cooks a grand feast and clothes him with the finest for His son has returned home. > > I can’t decide for others only myself. To me, the parable is about love and compassion being more important than merit and good conduct. Is that what you’re referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/253 "2013-03-28T14:29:19Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It is like I said: God does not punish or interfere with us but He does try to guide us if we are open to this guidance. > > The one who punishes is the one who does the bad deed. God does not interfere. Which god are you referring to in the above sentence? Your god? His god? Every god? The REAL god? Are they all supposed to follow a certain set of guidlines? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/254 "2013-03-28T15:48:09Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Ok, this is perplexing. Are you basing this on a Transcendentalist idea that man is inherently good, and only corrupted by society, or what? Because the world has plenty of evil people who never punish themselves, or even consider themselves evil. > > To me, the parable is about love and compassion being more important than merit and good conduct. Is that what you’re referring to? Yes mankind is inherently good, created in the image of God whom is inherently good. I think what you miss is that the action is the punishment. If you harm others you will be harmed, live by the sword, die by the sword. smoke and get cancer, you bring into your life what you put out. whatsoever you sow, so shall you reap. It works everytime. The law of attraction. Yes, love and compassion is worth more than merit and good conduct. Because it leads to peace, knowledge and understanding. It is one of those things you have to try in order to prove. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/255 "2013-03-28T15:49:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which god are you referring to in the above sentence? Your god? His god? Every god? The REAL god? Are they all supposed to follow a certain set of guidlines? I am referring here to the God I believe in, I can’t say about others. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/256 "2013-03-28T15:53:16Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I am referring here to the God I believe in, I can’t say about others. So it is totally possible that _his_ god could be of the punishing type, and that when you speak of what “God” can, does and will do you are referring only to your personal deity and what she/he/it can and will do to/for _you_? Does your god have any dominance over me if I don’t “believe in” it? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/257 "2013-03-28T15:59:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So it is totally possible that _his_ god could be of the punishing type, and that when you speak of what “God” can, does and will do you are referring only to your personal deity and what she/he/it can and will do to/for _you_? Does your god have any dominance over me if I don’t “believe in” it? I don’t believe any God has dominance over you, you have free will. My God is a role model for me, and I try to be like Him. The law of attraction works for everyone at all times. I have no idea where it came from but I am grateful for it. If I help others I receive help, if I am compassionate I receive compassion, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/258 "2013-03-28T16:06:01Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t believe any God has dominance over you, you have free will. So all gods _do_ follow some basic rules. Are there any other rules that pertain to all the gods? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/259 "2013-03-28T16:24:43Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Yes mankind is inherently good, created in the image of God whom is inherently good. I disagree with that notion rather sharply, but will table it in the interests of a theological focus, per the OP. > [@lekatt](#): > > I think what you miss is that the action is the punishment. If you harm others you will be harmed, live by the sword, die by the sword. smoke and get cancer, you bring into your life what you put out. whatsoever you sow, so shall you reap. It works everytime. The law of attraction. I’m reading two different ideas here. “The action is the punishment” suggests that evil actions harm the actor internally, that evil is punished by some internal suffering or spiritual corruption. But your examples focus on the idea of _external_ effects, like a violent person dying violently, which god/the universe causes to occur in response to the actions of the person. The first is arguable, I suppose, though not if make any effort to evaluate it honestly: evil people are not all miserable. The individual, biological urge for self-preservation causes each person to value their lives and happiness more than others’. This enables a breathtaking amount of evil to be rationalized as being necessary, and it troubleth them no more. The second, though is _clearly_ not true. If you’re seriously suggesting that the evil that people do in life is symmetrically punished in life, I’ll toss out some names: Pol Pot. Idi Amin. Fidel Castro. Shiro Ishii. > [@lekatt](#): > > Yes, love and compassion is worth more than merit and good conduct. Because it leads to peace, knowledge and understanding. It is one of those things you have to try in order to prove. As above, I reject this doctrine, but will table this for now. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/260 "2013-03-28T16:27:38Z")
Did your god create me in his image if I don’t believe it exists? If I believe in another god than yours, which one create me? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643.md?page=14)