# What kind of God would you believe in and follow **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643 "2013-03-22T15:12:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/261 "2013-03-28T17:13:08Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I disagree with that notion rather sharply, but will table it in the interests of a theological focus, per the OP. > > I’m reading two different ideas here. “The action is the punishment” suggests that evil actions harm the actor internally, that evil is punished by some internal suffering or spiritual corruption. But your examples focus on the idea of _external_ effects, like a violent person dying violently, which god/the universe causes to occur in response to the actions of the person. The first is arguable, I suppose, though not if make any effort to evaluate it honestly: evil people are not all miserable. The individual, biological urge for self-preservation causes each person to value their lives and happiness more than others’. This enables a breathtaking amount of evil to be rationalized as being necessary, and it troubleth them no more. > > The second, though is _clearly_ not true. If you’re seriously suggesting that the evil that people do in life is symmetrically punished in life, I’ll toss out some names: Pol Pot. Idi Amin. Fidel Castro. Shiro Ishii. > > As above, I reject this doctrine, but will table this for now. We are created in love. This love does come out for others in traumatic situations: a soldier falls on a grenade to save his buddies, a man jumps into the ocean to help someone who can’t swim, when the towers went down, thousands came to help, many giving their services free for all. It was a huge outpouring of love and compassion. Yes we are basically good. We act bad when we fear. As for the people you named they were not totally bad, some good came from them, but the harm they did will be finding its way back to them in another lifetime. No one escapes the law of attraction. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/262 "2013-03-28T17:33:27Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > We are created in love. This love does come out for others in traumatic situations: a soldier falls on a grenade to save his buddies, a man jumps into the ocean to help someone who can’t swim, when the towers went down, thousands came to help, many giving their services free for all. It was a huge outpouring of love and compassion. Yes we are basically good. We act bad when we fear. > > As for the people you named they were not totally bad, some good came from them, but the harm they did will be finding its way back to them in another lifetime. No one escapes the law of attraction. How does this work if someone believes in a god that _doesn’t_ follow these precepts? When you started this thread you claimed to want to know what other poster’s ideas about god were…but all you’ve done so far is tell us what “God” is all about. Are there actually other gods or aren’t there? If there are, who established all these rules you claim they have to follow? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/263 "2013-03-28T19:06:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How does this work if someone believes in a god that _doesn’t_ follow these precepts? When you started this thread you claimed to want to know what other poster’s ideas about god were…but all you’ve done so far is tell us what “God” is all about. Are there actually other gods or aren’t there? If there are, who established all these rules you claim they have to follow? There are lots of other Gods around, when I worked at the Hospital some of the doctors thought they were God. Yes I do want to know what others think about God. I have learned a lot from this thread. There are many Gods but only one All-That-Is, the creator of mankind, compassionate, loving and caring. The One I got all the rules from, actually there is only one rule. The law of attraction. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/264 "2013-03-28T19:23:57Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > There are lots of other Gods around, when I worked at the Hospital some of the doctors thought they were God. Yes I do want to know what others think about God. I have learned a lot from this thread. > > There are many Gods but only one All-That-Is, the creator of mankind, compassionate, loving and caring. The One I got all the rules from, actually there is only one rule. The law of attraction. So there are many gods, but _yours_ just happens to be The One That Rules Them All? Let’s see: You’ve given your god a special name, created a heirarchy of lesser gods, and created rules for them to follow. Congratulations-You’ve justed started a religion. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/265 "2013-03-28T19:37:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So there are many gods, but _yours_ just happens to be The One That Rules Them All? Let’s see: You’ve given your god a special name, created a heirarchy of lesser gods, and created rules for them to follow. > Congratulations-You’ve justed started a religion. Nah, I didn’t start anything its been there all along. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/266 "2013-03-28T20:10:43Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > We are created in love. This love does come out for others in traumatic situations: a soldier falls on a grenade to save his buddies, a man jumps into the ocean to help someone who can’t swim, when the towers went down, thousands came to help, many giving their services free for all. It was a huge outpouring of love and compassion. Yes we are basically good. We act bad when we fear. In some cases, except for ones when people act badly for other reasons. > [@lekatt](#): > > As for the people you named they were not totally bad, some good came from them, but the harm they did will be finding its way back to them in another lifetime. No one escapes the law of attraction. This law of attraction stuff doesn’t seem to square with the God you’ve been describing. This God does judge and punish, it’s just kicked down the road a bit into a future life, after memories have been erased. How does that fit with the earth-as-arena-for-spiritual growth stuff? Now you have people being punished by god for things they did in another life, which have nothing to do with the life they are in now, and they are supposed to discern a law from this chaos and follow it? ---
**Author:** ![CJPAmadaeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/fbc32d/32.png) [@CJPAmadaeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJPAmadaeus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/267 "2013-03-28T20:15:36Z")
Personally, I have such a severe god complex that I genuinely can’t imagine myself being in any way seperate from any sort of creator or god figure. As far as I’m concerned, you’re all a constant creation of my will, which I myself am also a creation of. I seperate myself from that on purpose, so as to be able to experience life as a man and not a god. The notion of “me” will one day die, but I self-identify with the core nature of the universe itself, making me seem to myself to be immortal and eternal. I don’t mean this in an individual or dualistic way in the least. Put simply - my God is all things. I am a thing. Because of that, I’m an expression of God just like anything else is. The positive upshot of feeling that way, is that I -always- keep the viewpoint of “everything is as it should be.” ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/268 "2013-03-28T20:25:18Z")
> [@CJPAmadaeus](#): > > Personally, I have such a severe god complex that I genuinely can’t imagine myself being in any way seperate from any sort of creator or god figure. As far as I’m concerned, you’re all a constant creation of my will, which I myself am also a creation of. I seperate myself from that on purpose, so as to be able to experience life as a man and not a god. The notion of “me” will one day die, but I self-identify with the core nature of the universe itself, making me seem to myself to be immortal and eternal. I don’t mean this in an individual or dualistic way in the least. Put simply - my God is all things. I am a thing. Because of that, I’m an expression of God just like anything else is. > > The positive upshot of feeling that way, is that I -always- keep the viewpoint of “everything is as it should be.” Yes, you understand, everything is as it should be. Love ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/269 "2013-03-28T20:36:15Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > In some cases, except for ones when people act badly for other reasons. > > This law of attraction stuff doesn’t seem to square with the God you’ve been describing. This God does judge and punish, it’s just kicked down the road a bit into a future life, after memories have been erased. How does that fit with the earth-as-arena-for-spiritual growth stuff? Now you have people being punished by god for things they did in another life, which have nothing to do with the life they are in now, and they are supposed to discern a law from this chaos and follow it? Once a person takes full responsibility for their own choices and actions it will make sense. The law of attraction can not be changed by God it comes with the Universe. Yes God can not do anything He wants anymore than we can because He came up through the same learning procedure as we will. Just that He knows all unless we create new knowledge then He learns from us. It is a relationship we all enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/270 "2013-03-28T20:43:06Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Once a person takes full responsibility for their own choices and actions it will make sense. The law of attraction can not be changed by God it comes with the Universe. Yes God can not do anything He wants anymore than we can because He came up through the same learning procedure as we will. Just that He knows all unless we create new knowledge then He learns from us. It is a relationship we all enjoy. Is there a name for your religion? Who created the universe if your god didn’t? Were there any other gods in existence when we were created? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/271 "2013-03-28T22:34:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Did your god create me in his image if I don’t believe it exists? If I believe in another god than yours, which one create me? If someone disbelieves in evolution, he nevertheless is the result of evolution. If God did, in fact, create us, our belief or disbelief is irrelevant. There are still flat-earthers out there… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/272 "2013-03-28T22:43:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So there are many gods, but _yours_ just happens to be The One That Rules Them All? Does he have a Ring? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/273 "2013-03-29T14:00:59Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Once a person takes full responsibility for their own choices and actions it will make sense. The law of attraction can not be changed by God it comes with the Universe. Yes God can not do anything He wants anymore than we can because He came up through the same learning procedure as we will. Just that He knows all unless we create new knowledge then He learns from us. It is a relationship we all enjoy. So is there any difference between the Course in Miracles stuff and the Law of Attraction stuff? Does CiM incorporate LoA? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/274 "2013-03-29T16:23:14Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > If someone disbelieves in evolution, he nevertheless is the result of evolution. > > If God did, in fact, create us, our belief or disbelief is irrelevant. There are still flat-earthers out there… You are right, and that is why we must search for the truth in all things and forget about theories and opinions. Only the truth is real. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/275 "2013-03-29T16:25:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there a name for your religion? Who created the universe if your god didn’t? Were there any other gods in existence when we were created? I don’t know how to answer you when your questions contradict. I can say that I belong to no religion, and what I speak of is not religion. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/276 "2013-03-29T16:27:58Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > So is there any difference between the Course in Miracles stuff and the Law of Attraction stuff? Does CiM incorporate LoA? Yes, it does incorporate the law of attraction. All spiritual teaching incorporates the law of attraction. There are some good videos of it on UTube. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/277 "2013-03-29T16:30:31Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t know how to answer you when your questions contradict. > I can say that I belong to no religion, and what I speak of is not religion. You can say a lot of things, it seems…most of them equally valid. You’ve determined that there are a heirarchy of gods that have to follow certain rules, you’ve put forth that one of them is in charge, and you’ve given her/him/it a pretentious name. In what way is this _not_ a religion? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/278 "2013-03-29T16:32:59Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Yes, it does incorporate the law of attraction. All spiritual teaching incorporates the law of attraction. There are some good videos of it on UTube. [The silliness that is “The Law Of Attraction”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_attraction). ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/279 "2013-03-29T16:58:22Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Yes, it does incorporate the law of attraction. All spiritual teaching incorporates the law of attraction. There are some good videos of it on UTube. The idea is from late 19th to early 20th century, so spiritual beliefs older than that don’t incorporate it, such as Theosophy and Spiritualism. Some beliefs that are newer, such as Wicca, also don’t incorporate the idea. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/280 "2013-03-29T17:10:27Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > The idea is from late 19th to early 20th century, so spiritual beliefs older than that don’t incorporate it, such as Theosophy and Spiritualism. > > Some beliefs that are newer, such as Wicca, also don’t incorporate the idea. I don’t believe that is correct, the law of attraction has been with us far back into history although it may not have been call by that name. Jesus said: “Whatsoever ye sow, so shall ye reap.” This is the law of attraction and it is expressed in all major religions in some form. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643.md?page=15)