# What kind of God would you believe in and follow **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643 "2013-03-22T15:12:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/41 "2013-03-22T18:03:59Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t except that as God either. Would you like Him to be kind. If a god existed, and it was somehow up to me to decide the traits this god would have, no, I wouldn’t ask for kindness. I’d prefer indifference to humanity. > [@lekatt](#): > > Are you saying He should be seen on a throne in a city where you can measure and observe Him without Him interfering with you. If not then what? If god isn’t going to interfere with humanity, I’d rather it not hang out on Earth. Nothing good will come of that. Better still, the god could refrain from revealing it’s existence to humanity; though if it’s a real thing, there’s a chance we could discover it on our own. > [@Boyo Jim](#): > > Now this is interesting. What you’re saying here is that god would have to be proven to exist to the entire world before you could believe it. Does this mean that if only you could witness this godlike behaviors, you would believe yourself delusional rather than believe in a god? > > FYI, I’m pretty much in that camp myself, except that if my witnessing this godlike behavior was delusional, it is quite probable that I would form an equally delusion belief in the god. That’s hard to answer unless it were to actually happen to me, but without any way to independently verify my experiences, yes, I think I’d be inclined to ascribe them to biological factors (i.e., hallucination) over some kind of aspect of reality that I alone can perceive. Then again, I might find it so persuasive that I form a church around my experience. Very difficult to say in the abstract. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/42 "2013-03-22T18:12:46Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I am asking you to tell the traits of a God you would believe in. The religious often ask questions like this, which has the weird underlying assumption that one CHOOSES one’s beliefs. I don’t disbelieve in your God because I’m a sinner or a bad person or because I don’t like authority figures. That belief could be changed or strengthened by evidence, but it is in no way a choice. No amount of “trait” assigning will help. However, there’s an easier way. As I’ve posted in other threads, an omnipotent god is fully capable of simply making me believe in him/her. They don’t need to produce any evidence at all – they can simply instill belief directly. I further state (and repeat here) that I willingly give up my free will in this instance, and allow him/her to do so… …nope, still nothin’. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/43 "2013-03-22T18:24:57Z")
Athena, as is obvious to persons who read my posts. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/44 "2013-03-22T19:10:24Z")
I can’t imagine any kind of god that I would want to “follow.” What’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/45 "2013-03-22T19:12:31Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Sure, but if this god could cast you into a vat of boiling oil for eternity for not doing so, would you become obsequiously flattering and a 100% toady? He’s never done so before, to my knowledge. Wouldn’t this kind of behavior be out of character? But I suppose we’re required to suspend all disbelief in this thread… So yeah, I’d be toadying like a motherf\*cker. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/46 "2013-03-22T19:16:56Z")
Imagine a god more perfect than which cannot be conceived… St. Anselm aside, I think the “believe in” has been pretty damn well covered. As for “follow”, I’d rather like one on the model of what I understand Milton’s Satan to be like–all about independence, freedom, reason and the like. Of course, a fellow like that probably wouldn’t really be demanding obedience, so what could constitute “following” him or her gets a bit odd. Perhaps it’d be more like “God is my personal hero” or something. o.O ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/47 "2013-03-22T19:23:02Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > Imagine a god more perfect than which cannot be conceived… > > St. Anselm aside, I think the “believe in” has been pretty damn well covered. As for “follow”, I’d rather like one on the model of what I understand Milton’s Satan to be like–all about independence, freedom, reason and the like. Of course, a fellow like that probably wouldn’t really be demanding obedience, so what could constitute “following” him or her gets a bit odd. Perhaps it’d be more like “God is my personal hero” or something. o.O So, like, friend him on Facebook and follow him on Twitter. God is my home page! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/48 "2013-03-22T19:44:44Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > Imagine a god more perfect than which cannot be conceived… > > St. Anselm aside, I think the “believe in” has been pretty damn well covered. As for “follow”, I’d rather like one on the model of what I understand Milton’s Satan to be like–all about independence, freedom, reason and the like. Of course, a fellow like that probably wouldn’t really be demanding obedience, so what could constitute “following” him or her gets a bit odd. Perhaps it’d be more like “God is my personal hero” or something. o.O God as role model rather than figure of worship; like an epic hero. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/49 "2013-03-22T19:47:16Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > That would be gneiss for a change. You’re gonna catch shale for that! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/50 "2013-03-22T19:54:27Z")
To add my voice to the chorus: I’d believe in a God that had evidence supporting Him. I’d worship a God that was actually good and worthy of worship. The Christian God fails utterly on both counts. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/51 "2013-03-22T20:03:35Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > God as role model rather than figure of worship; like an epic hero. Interesting. I really like that idea, God as role model. He would have to be strong yet compassionate. He would need to understand life, etc. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/52 "2013-03-22T20:08:10Z")
It has been said that God created us in His image. If that is true then we are the same as God. Maybe we just don’t know that yet. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/53 "2013-03-22T20:15:08Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > It has been said that God created us in His image. > If that is true then we are the same as God. > Maybe we just don’t know that yet. Cute…but back to the OP. What do you mean by “believe in”? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/54 "2013-03-22T22:13:06Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I really like that idea, God as role model. > He would have to be strong yet compassionate. > He would need to understand life, etc. > [@lekatt](#): > > It has been said that God created us in His image. > If that is true then we are the same as God. > Maybe we just don’t know that yet. Maybe God died back in '68. Maybe God hasn’t been created yet. We can suppose anything; it means nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/55 "2013-03-22T22:32:19Z")
If there was a god who was a perfect god, god would have created everything perfectly, and not longer be needed in this universe. Clearly there is no perfect god unless sadism is a ‘perfect’ trait. And if there’s an imperfect god, well, that’s just a being with more power than humans, and is also a sadist. How is that worth worship? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/56 "2013-03-22T22:55:09Z")
You’d have to define what you meant by “God” in the first place. I wouldn’t consider a being “God” just because it created the universe for example.\* “God” to me is pretty much defined as “a being composed of various impossible traits”. And even beings far less powerful could create false evidence that I could never prove was wrong, so ultimately I could never get past “I can’t tell if you’re faking it or not”. As for the other question, there’s no god I would “follow”, just because I’m not interested in following anyone, god or human. And I wouldn’t willingly worship anything whatsoever. > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Sure, but if this god could cast you into a vat of boiling oil for eternity for not doing so, would you become obsequiously flattering and a 100% toady? Probably no point to that, since it won’t work against a mind reader. That would only work if it’s satisfied with people _faking_ worship. You might as well have the satisfaction of dissing it to the face before it throws you into eternal torture. - An example from the novel \*Calculating God \*(major spoilers) [spoiler]“God” aka the Creator of our universe is believed to be an alien intelligence from another universe, the sole entity that ever existed there. There’s a large amount of in-universe evidence for this, known to the aliens who contact Earth. The atheist protagonist is convinced of its existence when xenophobic aliens detonate a supernova to sterilize all nearby stars, including ours, and light years away a vast shadowy mass of…something suddenly appears between the exploding star and Earth, keeping us in shadow. “Yes. That is the Creator”. But is that God? Not by my standards. It’s “just” a vastly powerful extrauniversal alien. I’d acknowledge it as the Creator, but not as God.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/57 "2013-03-22T22:55:23Z")
I’d easily believe in a god if we had irrefutable physical evidence. I am open-minded, and even though I’m a scientist and consider science to be the foremost way of knowing, I concede the possibility that the material world may not be the end-all, be-all of reality. Give me something clear and concrete and I promise I’ll jump on the god bandwagon too. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/58 "2013-03-22T23:11:00Z")
I am a faithful follower of Ceiling Cat. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/59 "2013-03-22T23:43:05Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I am a faithful follower of Ceiling Cat. Too much of a voyeuristic perv to get my vote. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643/60 "2013-03-23T00:28:42Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’d easily believe in a god if we had irrefutable physical evidence. I am open-minded, and even though I’m a scientist and consider science to be the foremost way of knowing, I concede the possibility that the material world may not be the end-all, be-all of reality. Give me something clear and concrete and I promise I’ll jump on the god bandwagon too. I am not convinced anything in this world or beyond is clear and concrete. I believe this is a world of possibilities whether material or spiritual. Everything has its moment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-god-would-you-believe-in-and-follow/653643.md?page=4)