# What Kind of Gun Should Rosa Parks Have Carried? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 11, 2013, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708 "2013-06-11T07:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/101 "2013-06-15T20:16:59Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > The OP presents a strawman in which 2nd amendment supporters use violence to right almost every perceived wrong. No, not a straw man. The OP gives an example of using firearms to oppose tyrannical behavior. He did this twice: once refers to successful attempts to use Jim Crow laws to stop American blacks from voting, the other refers to Japanese Americans being locked up because they are Japanese. And furthermore, 2nd amendment nutjobs mutter about using their guns to overthrow the democratically elected federal government all the time. Rick Perry1: [QUOTE=Rick Perry] Texans have a “different feeling about independence,” Perry told the group. ``` “When we came into the nation in 1845, we were a republic, we were a stand-alone nation,” the governor can be heard saying. “And one of the deals was, we can leave anytime we want. So we’re kind of thinking about that again.” The bloggers erupted in laughter after the remarks, and the slideshow was posted under the headline “Texas Governor Rick Perry jokes about Texas leaving the United States.” ``` [/QUOTE] [http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61030.html](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61030.html) Number two > [@](#): > > “There’s a lot of different scenarios,” Perry said. “We’ve got a great union. There’s absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that. But Texas is a very unique place, and we’re a pretty independent lot to boot.” [http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/16/texas-governor-says-secession-possible/](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/16/texas-governor-says-secession-possible/) Another example: Senator Inhofe, 2009: > [@](#): > > “We’re almost reaching a revolution in this country.” He was talking about -wait for it- a health care reform plan patterned after the one Mitt Romney passed in Massachusetts a few years earlier. [http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009\_08/019667.php](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_08/019667.php) Also: > [@](#): > > Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison’s former press secretary recently wrote about “the coming revolution,” which he suggested might be similar to “Project Mayhem” from the movie “Fight Club.” (In the film, “Project Mayhem” involved militarizing terrorist cells that blew up banks.) Sorry, but the OP addresses a very real and very stupid 2nd amendment argument, one which leads reasonable people to conclude that NRA members are a collection of loons, rubes, gulls and swallows. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/102 "2013-06-15T22:36:44Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > The OP presents a strawman in which 2nd amendment supporters use violence to right almost every perceived wrong. So Jim Crow and Japanese internment were just perceived wrongs. Not \*actual \*wrongs, just \*perceived \*wrongs. Funny use of strawman too: one usually doesn’t apply it to things that actually happened. The strawman is that there may be a situation where the US armed services turn against their own people, and the redneck nation will rise up in Red Dawn fashion to thwart them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/103 "2013-06-16T01:36:54Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Nobody is saying to go around blasting away at government servants because you disagree with a law. **Measure for Measure** already gave you some cites that refute this sentence, but I gotta ask, are you serious? I had you pegged as someone that followed politics, but for you to say something like this suggests you didn’t pay close attention to the 2010 election cycle, at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/104 "2013-06-16T04:16:48Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > **Measure for Measure** already gave you some cites that refute this sentence, but I gotta ask, are you serious? I had you pegged as someone that followed politics, but for you to say something like this suggests you didn’t pay close attention to the 2010 election cycle, at the very least. The Right has been talking like that since the _Clinton_ years, much less recently. I recall a right wing talk show host at the time getting in the news for talking about shooting FBI agents in the face if you opened the door and saw one. If anything the difference is that it has became so much the norm that right wingers calling for violence and murder no longer makes the news; it’s just _what they do._ ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/105 "2013-06-16T05:47:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The Right has been talking like that since the _Clinton_ years, much less recently. I recall a right wing talk show host at the time getting in the news for talking about shooting FBI agents in the face if you opened the door and saw one. If anything the difference is that it has became so much the norm that right wingers calling for violence and murder no longer makes the news; it’s just _what they do._ That was G Gordon Liddy if I remember correctly. He suggested a head shot because they might be wearing bullet proof vests. I wonder if that applies to bus drivers? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/106 "2013-06-16T12:01:12Z")
So why exactly did civil disobedience, protest marches and boycotts work circa 1955-1965, when it had never worked before? Why didn’t the police just beat Parks with clubs and gun down the black protesters, like they did 1900-1940? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/107 "2013-06-16T12:27:39Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > So why exactly did civil disobedience, protest marches and boycotts work circa 1955-1965, when it had never worked before? Why didn’t the police just beat Parks with clubs and gun down the black protesters, like they did 1900-1940? **Ibn Warraq** already mentioned that in 1957 Eisenhower (one of America’s most under-rated Presidents) sent the 101st Airborne into Arkansas to protect nine black students. At the same time he removed the Arkansas National Guard from Governor Faubus’ control to prevent civil war between two U.S. militaries. (And Faubus was considered a _moderate_. :smack: ) This was also the era of Martin Luther King, Jr. – one of the greatest men of the 20th century. It couldn’t happen in today’s climate. Teabaggers would paralyze Washington with impeachment hearings if a centrist President sent U.S. military against a state. And today’s Supreme Court is dominated by right-wingers. _Brown v. Board of Education_ and _Heart of Atlanta Motel v. United States_ – both decided by 9-0 votes at the time – would each be 5-4 (you pick) if today’s SCOTUS had heard them. I’m dismayed by some of the comments in this thread. A Texas white man could kill an Hispanic woman in cold blood for poor service because it was night-time. :smack: In Florida an Hispanic can accost an unarmed black man for wearing a hoodie, kill the man, and get sympathy. Right-wingers would have soiled their pants with bloodlust excitement to imagine a white man murdering a black busdriver who denied him a seat. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/108 "2013-06-16T12:49:56Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Nobody is saying to go around blasting away at government servants because you disagree with a law. Okay, you’re on the relatively-sane side, congratulations. But “nobody”? > [@](#): > > [Overall, the poll finds that 29 percent of Americans think that an armed revolution in order to protect liberties might be necessary in the next few years](http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2013/guncontrol/), with another five percent unsure. However, these beliefs are conditional on party. Just 18 percent of Democrats think an armed revolution may be necessary, as opposed to 44 percent of Republicans and 27 percent of independents. If that doesn’t scare you, why not? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/109 "2013-06-16T13:41:34Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > A Texas white man could kill an Hispanic woman in cold blood for poor service because it was night-time. :smack: In Florida an Hispanic can accost an unarmed black man for wearing a hoodie, kill the man, and get sympathy. If you are referring to the two cases I suspect you are, one was a shooting to stop a theft, and the other a killing in self defence, at least based on the evidence available to the public, and neither had a racial component. But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of your rant. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/110 "2013-06-16T14:25:08Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If you are referring to the two cases I suspect you are, one was a shooting to stop a theft, and the other a killing in self defence, at least based on the evidence available to the public, and neither had a racial component. > > But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of your rant. “Stop a theft” is at best controversial in that case. Condoning murder for $150, OTOH, as you seem to, deserves a rant. Accosting a stranger at night? After police told him not to? It was Martin who acted in self-defense, but “made the mistake” of bringing only his fists to a gunfight. Rant all you wish about racial components or lack thereof, but to pretend that reactions would be the same in these cases were the murderers black and the victims white is delusional. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/111 "2013-06-16T14:40:24Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Accosting a stranger at night? After police told him not to? It was Martin who acted in self-defense, but “made the mistake” of bringing only his fists to a gunfight. There’s a massive thread on this already, but all I say is that the evidence suggests quite strongly that the opposite is true, and as the trial’s just starting it should be clear soon. If it turns out he _did_ chase Martin and kill him, he’ll be convicted. If not, and he was attacked by Martin, he won’t. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/112 "2013-06-16T15:17:04Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > There’s a massive thread on this already, but all I say is that the evidence suggests quite strongly that the opposite is true, and as the trial’s just starting it should be clear soon. > > If it turns out he _did_ chase Martin and kill him, he’ll be convicted. If not, and he was attacked by Martin, he won’t. I’ll guess you’ve spent at least 300 times as much time as I have studying the case, but my impression is that the facts may never come out: Of only two witnesses, one is dead. And the faith your remark implies in the infallibility of justice and jury is flabbergasting. > [@](#): > > Juror E-81, a woman, said she believes Zimmerman is innocent and that he was trying to defend himself against Martin, who she described as a boy “going down the wrong path.”… > “[Zimmerman] is just watching out for someone who looks suspicious and this boy is confronted, and he already has drugs in his system or could have been high even then, and he got aggressive,” > … “I think the more people who are armed, the better,” E-81 said. The judge hasn’t ruled yet, but a news report suggests that prosecutor may need to spend a peremptory challenge to avoid E-81. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/113 "2013-06-16T17:39:05Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > So why exactly did civil disobedience, protest marches and boycotts work circa 1955-1965, when it had never worked before? Why didn’t the police just beat Parks with clubs and gun down the black protesters, like they did 1900-1940? Have you not studied the civil rights movement? They did arrest, beat, and kill protesters in the 50s and 60s. What was different was that King emulated Gandhi’s tactics of nonviolent resistance. The marchers were unbelievably brave and disciplined. When the public saw on TV what was happening to peaceful marchers there was enough outrage at the national level to force the Federal government to intervene. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/114 "2013-06-16T19:15:15Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If it turns out he _did_ chase Martin and kill him, he’ll be convicted. If not, and he was attacked by Martin, he won’t. I didn’t realize that you believed Emmitt Till wasn’t murdered and that OJ was innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/115 "2013-06-16T19:18:36Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > I’m not sure what got into me. How could a discussion of using 2nd amendment rights to defend civil liberties have referred to the Jim Crow era? I should have used a more race-neutral example. > > What kinds of guns should Japanese Americans have used to prevent them from being sent to internment camps? That’s mighty white of you. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/116 "2013-06-16T19:25:59Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I didn’t realize that you believed Emmitt Till wasn’t murdered and that OJ was innocent. In neither of those cases was it proven at trial that the people charged were murderers, due in both cases to fuckups by the prosecution - in the case of Till, they failed to even prove he was dead, and the accused admitted the murders later. As someone who actually cares more about justice than vengeance, I’d far rather see a guilty person go free than an innocent person jailed. And yes, if someone attacks you and you then shoot and kill them, it’s justice if you go free. If the prosecution can prove Zimmerman wasn’t attacked, then fine, convict him. Otherwise, no. Anyway, there’s a [thread for this.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=648744) ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/117 "2013-06-16T23:40:12Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > That’s mighty white of you. Right black at you. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/118 "2013-06-17T00:48:03Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > Right black at you. I suppose if I were black it’s possible I’d be offended, but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/119 "2013-06-17T00:58:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Not saying it’s not offensive, but I’m wondering, can you elaborate on why you find it offensive? I think the underlying message is intended to be highly complimentary to Parks: it’s saying, “Look, dumbshits, there are effective ways to stand up to an unjust, tyrannical government. Rosa Parks knew how to do it. It didn’t involve waving guns around.” > > I don’t see that as offensive, but I’m open to being educated on the subject. **Ibn Warraq** , I really would like an answer to this question. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708/120 "2013-06-17T01:18:48Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > So why exactly did civil disobedience, protest marches and boycotts work circa 1955-1965, when it had never worked before? Why didn’t the police just beat Parks with clubs and gun down the black protesters, like they did 1900-1940? And how did Solidarity eventually topple the Soviet Union? How did they do it without guns? True there was a big setback, but the house of cards eventually tumbled. “The arc of the universe is long…” Partial answer: Solidarity’s leaders were familiar with the US civil rights movement and Gandhi. They also knew that they could not defeat the Soviet Union via arms, so peaceful techniques were the only remaining strategy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-gun-should-rosa-parks-have-carried/660708.md?page=7)