# What kind of plane is this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 22, 2007, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045 "2007-03-22T17:44:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jharvey963](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/54ee81/32.png) [@jharvey963](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jharvey963)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/21 "2007-03-22T23:25:43Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] Check [this](http://fsl.cs.uiuc.edu/images/f/f4/Velocity-aircraft.jpg) sweet little beauty out. Very nice! [/QUOTE] Actually, I used to own a Velocity, though not as nicely painted. It was definitely a conversation starter. I flew it from Florida to Arizona. You can imagine the looks I got when I landed in Roswell, NM. 🙂 J. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/22 "2007-03-22T23:48:16Z")
Pretty unlikely to have both canards _and_ a T-tail. Seeing as you didn’t see the canards, we’re best looking for a T-tail turbo-pusher. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/23 "2007-03-23T00:12:43Z")
The only two turbo-prop pusher T-tails I can find are these: [Embraer/FMA CBA 123 Vector,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer/FMA_CBA_123_Vector) or a [NAL Sara.](http://www.nal.res.in/) The Sara isn’t in production yet so it is more likely to be the Embraer although the Sara may have been on a demonstration flight. Neither of these aircraft are anywhere near the size of a 737 though, turbo-props aren’t normally that big. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/24 "2007-03-23T00:30:53Z")
Looking into it further it seems that only two Vectors were built. Also there have been several P180 flights into San Jose recently. Are you _sure_ it was a T-tail turbo-prop pusher? It seems that they are as rare as an honest politician. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/25 "2007-03-23T00:39:43Z")
[QUOTE=1920s Style “Death Ray”] Pretty unlikely to have both canards _and_ a T-tail. Seeing as you didn’t see the canards, we’re best looking for a T-tail turbo-pusher. [/QUOTE] Right last post, sorry for the spam session. Obviously I neglected the P180 when I made that comment about T-tails and canards. I’ve been through Wikipedia’s list of pusher prop aircraft. There were three with turbo-props and a T-tail. The Embraer Vector only saw two prototypes made and the Sara has recently made it’s 100th flight. The P180 however, fits all of your description except for size and where the engines are mounted. Size is incredibly difficult to judge with no reference–was it similar size to a B737 or was it smaller and flying lower? The P180 also flies into SJC fairly regularly. My vote is for a P180. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/26 "2007-03-23T01:43:36Z")
Detail of the Unducted Fan Jet engine on the MD81 test aircraft: [http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Rarebird/0809.html](http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Rarebird/0809.html) The airplane would be a DC9 class jet with a T-tail. However there was only the one made, for the testing of the engines, almost 20 years ago and AFAIK they were dismantled when the testing finished and it was decided to just go with high-bypass ducted fans for the next-gen MD95. ---
**Author:** ![jharvey963](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/54ee81/32.png) [@jharvey963](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jharvey963)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/27 "2007-03-23T01:44:59Z")
[QUOTE=1920s Style “Death Ray”] Right last post, sorry for the spam session. Obviously I neglected the P180 when I made that comment about T-tails and canards. I’ve been through Wikipedia’s list of pusher prop aircraft. There were three with turbo-props and a T-tail. The Embraer Vector only saw two prototypes made and the Sara has recently made it’s 100th flight. The P180 however, fits all of your description except for size and where the engines are mounted. Size is incredibly difficult to judge with no reference–was it similar size to a B737 or was it smaller and flying lower? The P180 also flies into SJC fairly regularly. My vote is for a P180. [/QUOTE] I understand your skepticism regarding the size. I am a pilot, however, and often watch the planes fly overhead. I’m pretty good at estimating size, and it was definitely bigger than the NAL Sara and Vector. I’ve even owned my own plane for a year. I’m quite confident that it was larger than these. The fuselage in front of the wings was also MUCH longer, which is why I interpreted the bulges on the sides of the front part of the fuselage as a canard. It was also much bigger than the P180. I’m used to seeing unusual configurations in smaller airplanes flying into San Jose, and wouldn’t have taken much notice of it had it been smaller. This one was remarkable because it was airliner size with a very unusual configuration. Thanks for your efforts in trying to identify it. J. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/28 "2007-03-23T02:22:41Z")
When did you see it? ---
**Author:** ![flyboy101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@flyboy101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy101)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/29 "2012-06-23T17:49:48Z")
You won’t believe it, but I just saw the same plane (now 2012). I have spent five hours on the internet searching for pics of this strange plane I saw. I even drew a picture of it so I wouldnt forget what it looked like… i have found NOTHING. I was about to give up and I came across this post. I by a civilian airport and a marine air wing base. wonder if it is some kind of secret government serveilvance plane. I say this because the wings seemed to be straight high aspect ratio wings (thin and long) normally for high long range planes. Very rare in this type aircraft, normally reserved for experimental and government recon planes. I saw same as you! The plane was white in color. It had a long narrow fuselage with a small straight rectangle “canard” on the tip of the nose (you said stubby - yes!). The wings were long and thin (straight out - no angle) about 3/4 of the way to the rear (looked like it was flying backwards because the tail is normally what is long). While it had sound no engines were visible on wings or nose. I could see the flat bottom of what may have been a t-tail but it ran along the bottom of the fuselage. I assumed it had one pusher prop mounted at the back because there was no other place it could have been. The one I saw seemed to have two small wingtip fuel tanks. During my research to find what this was I never once found a pic. The closest thing I could find were the thin long wings of a glider or sail plane. No Canard plane had the canard molded directly in front, as part of the nose itself (not back at all) and did not have the long fuselage. I could go on and on about how strange this thing was. I have never seen anything like it, not even in my hours and hours of research. I’m glad I’m not the only one to see it! * * * > [@jharvey963](#): > > I work under the flight path of the San Jose International Airport and saw a pretty weird looking plane. > > It seemed to be about the size of a small 737, or maybe a little smaller. It had a long fuselage with what appeared to be a stubby canard in front. The wings were mounted far back, well past the midpoint of the fuselage. The two engines appeared to be “pusher” turbo-props, mounted on the empannage behind the wings. It had a “T” tail. I don’t remember if there were windows down the fusalage or not. > > Does anybody know what kind of plane this is? > > Thanks, > J. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/30 "2012-06-23T18:19:15Z")
Are you sure yours wasn’t the [P180](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.180_Avanti)? Small nose-mounted canard; straight, unswept high-aspect-ratio wings; generally painted white. It even has a very small [extra wing thingy mounted at the tail below the T-tail](http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=655&tbm=isch&tbnid=UmHgX2Qc2aIOgM:&imgrefurl=http://www.abacuspub.com/platinum/catalog/s655.htm&docid=-sO8ktG7ZabzTM&imgurl=http://www.abacuspub.com/platinum/piaggio/piaggio_15.jpg&w=900&h=668&ei=OQjmT_zMOoXM9QSItbWgAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=978&vpy=4&dur=1370&hovh=193&hovw=261&tx=70&ty=212&sig=107862587208948736716&page=1&tbnh=140&tbnw=202&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0,i:85). ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/31 "2012-06-23T18:25:21Z")
> [@Phlosphr](#): > > Check [this](http://fsl.cs.uiuc.edu/images/f/f4/Velocity-aircraft.jpg) sweet little beauty out. Very nice! Old thread, but our niece’s husband is building one of these as we speak. He lives next to an airstrip and has a hangar-sized garage. Cool plane. Built his own engine and designed and built his own instrument panel. The guy is a major gear-head. ---
**Author:** ![flyboy101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@flyboy101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy101)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/32 "2012-06-23T19:13:32Z")
Not even close to the p180, way to short. this plane is MUCH longer. Very long and thing. The only thing similar is the nose. Wings are different and engines are not on the wings like the 180. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Are you sure yours wasn’t the [P180](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.180_Avanti)? Small nose-mounted canard; straight, unswept high-aspect-ratio wings; generally painted white. It even has a very small [extra wing thingy mounted at the tail below the T-tail](http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=655&tbm=isch&tbnid=UmHgX2Qc2aIOgM:&imgrefurl=http://www.abacuspub.com/platinum/catalog/s655.htm&docid=-sO8ktG7ZabzTM&imgurl=http://www.abacuspub.com/platinum/piaggio/piaggio_15.jpg&w=900&h=668&ei=OQjmT_zMOoXM9QSItbWgAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=978&vpy=4&dur=1370&hovh=193&hovw=261&tx=70&ty=212&sig=107862587208948736716&page=1&tbnh=140&tbnw=202&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0,i:85). ---
**Author:** ![flyboy101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@flyboy101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy101)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/33 "2012-06-23T19:25:22Z")
Not even close to the p180, it is way to short it has engines on the wings. the plane I saw is MUCH longer. Very long and thin fuselage with engine as part of tail assembly. You can get the idea of it from the p180 in terms of the nose and wing position… but only an idea of it. Hope I see it again. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/34 "2012-06-23T20:29:31Z")
This is going to sound incredibly condescending, given as you guys seem to be people who otherwise know their planes, but is there any way you were simply confused when looking at a [CRJ900](http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/crj900/images/crj900_5.jpg) (or, unlikely, given the lack of North American operators, a [CRJ1000](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0_WKM510JuQ/TV776beb73I/AAAAAAAABis/VKwHcgBaydI/s1600/MG_CRJ-1000_Brit%2BAir_Air%2BFrance%2Bnew%2Bcs_F-HMLC_18.02.11_BSL_5048.JPG))? The plane is very long and thin, with relatively straight wings for it’s type that are set very far back. When the nose gear is [extended](http://www.flickr.com/photos/a380spotter/6654628319/lightbox/), the doors are very visible and could look a bit like a canard. Definitely a T-tail and at high speeds the unpainted[metal nozzle of the CF34 engine](http://www.airteamimages.com/pics/43/43508_800.jpg)_might_ look like the [rotor of a prop](http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_399/12424861579NYJvc.jpg)? With seating ranges of ~90 and ~100 seats respectively, the CRJ900 and CRJ1000 are kind of large, but somewhat smaller than the 737-200, which seats 97 in a typical two-class configuration. It’s an incredibly dorky plane to look at, especially if you are more used to seeing [CRJ200s](http://flyfan.fte2.org/bts/D-ACLZ%20-%20CRJ200%20Lufthansa%20regional%20-%20BTS%2010-08-07.jpg)…even compared to the [CRJ700](http://www.dutchops.com/AC_Data/Bombardier/Information/CRJ_700/Styrian_CRJ700.jpg), the 900 and 1000 look ridiculously long. ---
**Author:** ![flyboy101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@flyboy101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy101)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/35 "2012-06-24T03:02:12Z")
I appreciate your questions. Not seeing it for yourself must raise questions and doubts. However, the one I saw was flying very low and directly over my home. I got a really close look albeit directly underneath. The fuselage was very thin and very long. I would even say it was thin enough that it was most likely single pilot and any passangers would almost have to sit single file. Today I went to our small airport and questioned some “in the know” management and showed them a hand sketched drawing and none of them were familiar with the aircraft and have not seen it on the flight line. Most likely it is an experimental plane… but the possibility still remains military recon. Today I must haved looked at two thousand pics online of all types of aircraft and never saw anything like it. It was a mix between the p180 and a glider. Same basic design as the p180, but much longer and thiner fuselage with long thin high aspect ratio wings. I’m telling you, never seen anything like it before. Very cool and rare sight. > [@mnemosyne](#): > > This is going to sound incredibly condescending, given as you guys seem to be people who otherwise know their planes, but is there any way you were simply confused when looking at a [CRJ900](http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/crj900/images/crj900_5.jpg) (or, unlikely, given the lack of North American operators, a [CRJ1000](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0_WKM510JuQ/TV776beb73I/AAAAAAAABis/VKwHcgBaydI/s1600/MG_CRJ-1000_Brit%2BAir_Air%2BFrance%2Bnew%2Bcs_F-HMLC_18.02.11_BSL_5048.JPG))? > > The plane is very long and thin, with relatively straight wings for it’s type that are set very far back. When the nose gear is [extended](http://www.flickr.com/photos/a380spotter/6654628319/lightbox/), the doors are very visible and could look a bit like a canard. > > Definitely a T-tail and at high speeds the unpainted[metal nozzle of the CF34 engine](http://www.airteamimages.com/pics/43/43508_800.jpg)_might_ look like the [rotor of a prop](http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_399/12424861579NYJvc.jpg)? With seating ranges of ~90 and ~100 seats respectively, the CRJ900 and CRJ1000 are kind of large, but somewhat smaller than the 737-200, which seats 97 in a typical two-class configuration. > > It’s an incredibly dorky plane to look at, especially if you are more used to seeing [CRJ200s](http://flyfan.fte2.org/bts/D-ACLZ%20-%20CRJ200%20Lufthansa%20regional%20-%20BTS%2010-08-07.jpg)…even compared to the [CRJ700](http://www.dutchops.com/AC_Data/Bombardier/Information/CRJ_700/Styrian_CRJ700.jpg), the 900 and 1000 look ridiculously long. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/36 "2012-06-24T03:57:14Z")
Could it be a [BAE Mantis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Mantis) UAV? ETA: Based on the statement that it first flew in 2009, (also [this article](http://www.armedforces-int.com/news/bae_mantis_uav_completes_initial_flight_trials.html)), it seems it couldn’t have been sighted in 2007. And it does have a bulge in the front, but no actual canard. Maybe there was a predecessor to it? ---
**Author:** ![NCSUCSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c77e96/32.png) [@NCSUCSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NCSUCSD)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/37 "2012-06-24T16:13:43Z")
Hey flyboy101, pretty sure I saw the exact same plane that you did… Completely white, obvious canards on the front, and was flying near Miramar… I immediately assumed it was a UAV of some kind, but haven’t been able to find anything similar online. The flight path where I am would be very unusual for anything other than military aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/38 "2012-06-24T17:29:14Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Could it be a [BAE Mantis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Mantis) UAV? > > ETA: Based on the statement that it first flew in 2009, (also [this article](http://www.armedforces-int.com/news/bae_mantis_uav_completes_initial_flight_trials.html)), it seems it couldn’t have been sighted in 2007. And it does have a bulge in the front, but no actual canard. Maybe there was a predecessor to it? What would it have been doing at a civilian airfield in the US? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/39 "2012-06-24T18:50:07Z")
2012 and nobody has a cell phone with a camera? ---
**Author:** ![flyboy101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@flyboy101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy101)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045/40 "2012-06-25T01:06:45Z")
Yes it quite well could have been a UAV and yes it was completely white. I also live near a marine corps air wing base. It is interesting that the design is no where to be found. * * * > [@NCSUCSD](#): > > Hey flyboy101, pretty sure I saw the exact same plane that you did… Completely white, obvious canards on the front, and was flying near Miramar… I immediately assumed it was a UAV of some kind, but haven’t been able to find anything similar online. The flight path where I am would be very unusual for anything other than military aircraft. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-plane-is-this/397045.md?page=3)