# What kind of society.... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 4, 2011, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-society/591443 "2011-08-04T09:12:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-society/591443/141 "2011-08-09T15:02:44Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Can individual citizens buy the stuff? Yeah, they’re called license plates. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-society/591443/142 "2011-08-09T15:04:55Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > IMO, there are lots of great arguments about how bad drugs are, but knowing how many people are sitting in prison because of marijuana makes me sick. Frankly, there are times when it occurs to me that more people could use a toke or two in their daily lives so they can chill the fuck out.😃 > > (Man, I’m coming off like druggie of the year in the Pit today, haha. And I don’t even smoke pot.) I’ve seen a few lives ruined and families broken by alcohol and gambling. Heck I’ve seen families broken by online gaming. Seems like just about any addiction can do it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-society/591443/143 "2011-08-09T16:07:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yeah, they’re called license plates. Technically, no, you can’t buy a license plate. License plates are the property of the state. Drivers are only renting them. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-society/591443/144 "2011-08-09T16:28:58Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Can individual citizens buy the stuff? No. It is not that it is illegal for private companies to buy prison-made goods – it is actually that it is illegal for products made by prisoners to move in interstate commerce by any means, unless the prisoners are paid a wage equal to what free workers would make doing the same labor. The law does not apply to services or to goods sold directly back to the government. [Ashurst-Sumners Act](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashurst%E2%80%93Sumners_Act) ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-society/591443/145 "2011-08-10T18:34:46Z")
You know I’m always intrigued when posters call for more humanity to be shown towards violent criminals. Are they really, really, so totally liberal in their outlook ? So very deeply caring towards ALL people, as in an almost christ like manner ? Or are they trying to justify their own actions, or the actions of their criminal friends and family ? Justifying their own criminal actions by spouting off about “society”, and how much money the demonic corporations (For some reason they’re even MORE evil then other businesses), or rich people, or governments or so on and on and on, ad nauseam . Are we REALLY supposed to turn a blind eye to say muggers because there are people out there who commit murders, which is much more bad, so mere mugging isn’t really an offence ? Well I’ll tell you this, if somebody raped a loved one of mine, it wouldn’t console me that she might have been murdered, or that the criminal had an unhappy childhood, though I expect that \*\*Pretty Vacant \*\* would, because of his saint like compassion for the underpriveleged Yes its easy to justify your antisocial actions by telling yourself that they are a result of higher ethical motives. Much easier then admitting that you’re a sociopath who preys on those weaker then yourselves. One of the most contemptible attempts at justification that I’ve seen was the daughter of an aquaintance of mine, who when in court for shoplifting said that she wasn’t going to see any child of hers starve because the govenment didn’t pay enough benefits to feed him. Till it was pointed out that she regulary smoked and drank, was wearing makeup (befoer we get distraction arguments, I’m making the point that you spend your money on your kids food before M/U if he’s starving), and just to add insult to injury had recently had her hair done. Heres a little tip for those who suffer so terribly for those" brave little soldiers", serving time… Tell them if they can’t do the time, then don’t do the crime. According to **PV** , it will seriously piss off LEOs and capitalists everywhere if they can’t bang people up on account of they’re not committing any crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-society/591443/146 "2011-08-10T21:04:58Z")
So you’re saying liberals are wrong because they … Actually, I’m not sure what exactly your point is. But it’s clear you think liberals are doing something really bad. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-society/591443/147 "2011-08-10T21:08:27Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > [ul] > [li]Imprisons currently more people than any other country in history?[/li] > [li]Accounts for 5% of the worlds population and 25% of the worlds prisoners?[/li] > [li]Currently imprisons 1% of its entire population?[/li] > [li]Has more 17-year old black males in prison than college?[/li] > [li]Has one in nine black males aged between 20-34 in prison?[/li] > [li]Has incarcerated, under the three strikkes rule, Leandro Andrade serving two terms of 25 years to life for stealing five and then four more video tapes?[/li] > [li]Has incarcerated, under the three strikkes rule, Santos Reyes for 26 years to life cheating on a driver’s test?[/li] > [li]Forces prisoners - under threat of solitary confinement - to produce 100% of military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet-proof vests, ID tags, for 25 cents an hour?[/li][/ul] > > etc, etc. Even if the phrase ‘social justice’ doesn’t mean a whole lot, surely the false economy in not investing in the education of the poor and young is obvious? > > But beyond that, does this make any sense at all on a simple wasted lives, humanitarian level? An imperfect one? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-society/591443/148 "2011-08-10T21:33:33Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > You know I’m always intrigued when posters call for more humanity to be shown towards violent criminals. > > Are they really, really, so totally liberal in their outlook ? > > So very deeply caring towards ALL people, as in an almost christ like manner ? > Or are they trying to justify their own actions, or the actions of their criminal friends and family ? > > Justifying their own criminal actions by spouting off about “society”, and how much money the demonic corporations (For some reason they’re even MORE evil then other businesses), or rich people, or governments or so on and on and on, ad nauseam . > > Are we REALLY supposed to turn a blind eye to say muggers because there are people out there who commit murders, which is much more bad, so mere mugging isn’t really an offence ? > > Well I’ll tell you this, if somebody raped a loved one of mine, it wouldn’t console me that she might have been murdered, or that the criminal had an unhappy childhood, though I expect that \*\*Pretty Vacant \*\* would, because of his saint like compassion for the underpriveleged > > Yes its easy to justify your antisocial actions by telling yourself that they are a result of higher ethical motives. > > Much easier then admitting that you’re a sociopath who preys on those weaker then yourselves. > > One of the most contemptible attempts at justification that I’ve seen was the daughter of an aquaintance of mine, who when in court for shoplifting said that she wasn’t going to see any child of hers starve because the govenment didn’t pay enough benefits to feed him. > Till it was pointed out that she regulary smoked and drank, was wearing makeup (befoer we get distraction arguments, I’m making the point that you spend your money on your kids food before M/U if he’s starving), and just to add insult to injury had recently had her hair done. > > Heres a little tip for those who suffer so terribly for those" brave little soldiers", serving time… > > Tell them if they can’t do the time, then don’t do the crime. > > According to **PV** , it will seriously piss off LEOs and capitalists everywhere if they can’t bang people up on account of they’re not committing any crimes. I’ve never been jailed, nor arrested. And I think we go too far. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-society/591443/149 "2011-08-11T04:18:58Z")
> [@OneMissedPost](#): > > They made the choice knowing that it was illegal. No one was forcing them to smoke marijuana. They made that choice. They knew there was a risk and they got caught. How exactly is that unfair? I think it’s bullshit we spend so much time, energy, and money incarcerating people for non-violent offenses like those surrounding marijuana. It’s a harmless, non-addictive plant (it’s actually quite beneficial, as evidenced by the growing use of medical mj), and I don’t think there’s any good reason to put people in prison over it. By legalizing marijuana, we could grow, regulate, and sell it here instead of money from the illegal drug trade supporting cartels and organized crime. I’m not a marijuana activist, but I do believe much of what they say makes good sense. But I’m not here to get into a debate over legalization, or morality surrounding recreational drug use, it’s just my personal opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-society/591443/150 "2011-08-11T08:06:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So you’re saying liberals are wrong because they … > > Actually, I’m not sure what exactly your point is. But it’s clear you think liberals are doing something really bad. I’m not surprised that you can’t actually understand my point, or choose to represent yourself as unable to, while putting up a strawman, as comprehension doesn’t seem to be your strong point. No I don’t think that liberals are doing something wrong, by American standards I’m a liberal myself. What I’m calling people on, as other posters recognised quite easily, though not of course yourself… , is that those who IRL most probably haven’t got a liberal bone in their bodies, but ARE gangbangers, or friends and relatives of such, or who grew up in an environment of petty, and not so petty crime, representing their sympathy to habitual criminals as being based on humanitarian, or religious principles. When in fact its based on their own empathy with the criminals, whether or not they’ve had the opportunity or confidence (or stupidity) to actually commit a crime. Its a dishonest tactic (so no surprises there), but unfortunately “False Flag posting”, is not a rareity these days. Crying crocodile tears is one of the most contemptable ways of debating ever. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-society/591443/151 "2011-08-11T18:36:41Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > [ul] > [li]Imprisons currently more people than any other country in history?[/li] That would be one that believes in the rule of law. > [@](#): > > [li]Accounts for 5% of the worlds population and 25% of the worlds prisoners?[/li] That would be one that believes in the rule of law. > [@](#): > > [li]Currently imprisons 1% of its entire population?[/li] That would be one that believes in the rule of law. > [@](#): > > [li]Has more 17-year old black males in prison than college?[/li] Meaningless. > [@](#): > > [li]Has one in nine black males aged between 20-34 in prison?[/li] Meaningless. > [@](#): > > [li]Has incarcerated, under the three strikkes rule, Leandro Andrade serving two terms of 25 years to life for stealing five and then four more video tapes?[/li] Meaningless. > [@](#): > > [li]Has incarcerated, under the three strikkes rule, Santos Reyes for 26 years to life cheating on a driver’s test?[/li] Meaningless. > [@](#): > > [li]Forces prisoners - under threat of solitary confinement - to produce 100% of military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet-proof vests, ID tags, for 25 cents an hour?[/li] Meaningless. > [@](#): > > [/ul] > > etc, etc. Even if the phrase ‘social justice’ doesn’t mean a whole lot, surely the false economy in not investing in the education of the poor and young is obvious? > > But beyond that, does this make any sense at all on a simple wasted lives, humanitarian level? The issue boils down to the fact that we are a society of laws. If someone chooses to break the law, actions have consequences. They knew that what they were doing was wrong and chose to do it anyway; they do not deserve sympathy, but censure for their actions. Perhaps instead of complaining about the fact that all those folks are in prison, why not complain about the fact that they made it necessary to put them in prison in the first place? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-kind-of-society/591443.md?page=7)