# What lessons can be drawn from the 2012 election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 8, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306 "2012-11-08T00:31:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/21 "2012-11-08T18:00:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Ah, but are you an _angry_ old white dude? Yeah, see I am a white dude in my 40’s upper middle class. But the key is I am not angry. So I voted for Obama. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/22 "2012-11-08T18:05:38Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. We need legislation to create uniform standards for voting rights and procedures in this country, and take the authority away from the states. They can’t be trusted with it. Great idea! That way, when the Republicans have power, minorities will be disenfranchised across the country instead of in certain states. We can’t have Maryland minorities having more say than Pennsylvania minorities, that would be unfair. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/23 "2012-11-08T18:08:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, now that we’ve brought ourselves into the 18th century, we can start working our way into the 19th century. Lesson number one: Slavery is not good. Repeat after me: Slavery is not good. except of course, when you are enslaved by the federal government. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/24 "2012-11-08T18:14:38Z")
> [@](#): > > They believe economic recessions are “mental” and can be cured by boosting public confidence I believe your beef here is with mainstream economics, not just conservatives. Isn’t the current course taken by the Fed to boost asset prices so that folks will think they are more wealthy and spend more? After all, our problem is depressed aggregate demand, all we really need to do is man up and SPEND. That saving nonsense is for right wing nut jobs and Asians. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/25 "2012-11-08T18:25:42Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > except of course, when you are enslaved by the federal government. It’s a good thing that’s not happening. Of course if the federal government ever does become too overpowering you can always move to Canada. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/26 "2012-11-08T18:37:48Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > It’s a good thing that’s not happening. > Of course if the federal government ever does become too overpowering you can always move to Canada. As long as they tax my “income” I remain enslaved. I have no interest in changing my life so I can be ruled by a more fiscally responsible slave master. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/27 "2012-11-08T18:46:24Z")
Enslaved, drama queen, potato, potahto. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/28 "2012-11-08T18:48:23Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > As long as they tax my “income” I remain enslaved. I have no interest in changing my life so I can be ruled by a more fiscally responsible slave master. You are not a lone wolf. You live in a society. You are expected to contribute. If you don’t want to do that, you are free to leave to find someplace else. This, my friends, is at least partially the bitter fruit of ending Civics classes. People now have no idea of the responsibilities that come along with their rights. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/29 "2012-11-08T18:51:16Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > As long as they tax my “income” I remain enslaved. I have no interest in changing my life so I can be ruled by a more fiscally responsible slave master. Are you fucking serious? Income tax is enslavement? There are no words to describe what an asinine concept that is. When was the last time the fed tied you to a post and whipped you, or sold your children, or forbade you from learning to read? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/30 "2012-11-08T18:51:48Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > As long as they tax my “income” I remain enslaved. I have no interest in changing my life so I can be ruled by a more fiscally responsible slave master. Taxes are the cover charge for living in a civilized society. I’m sure you utilize as many government services as the rest of us, so pay up like a good person. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/31 "2012-11-08T18:54:23Z")
Its way too early to be sure. But there is evidence, there are hints: money doesn’t work any more. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/32 "2012-11-08T18:57:05Z")
You have to have some positive message. You have to be able to tell people why they should vote for you and not just why they should vote against the other guy. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/33 "2012-11-08T18:57:19Z")
I say the Republicans need to really and truly give the boot to the wacky element in their party, to the extent that even the most lefty organic farmer in upstate NY can’t deny it. Maybe then they could become a good alternative choice, like the New England Republicans of old. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/34 "2012-11-08T18:59:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its way too early to be sure. But there is evidence, there are hints: money doesn’t work any more. I don’t think it’s that simple. Money is necessary. But if you’ve got the ability to win, people will give you the money. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/35 "2012-11-08T19:26:43Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Are you fucking serious? Income tax is enslavement? There are no words to describe what an asinine concept that is. When was the last time the fed tied you to a post and whipped you, or sold your children, or forbade you from learning to read? So those are necessary conditions of slavery? > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Taxes are the cover charge for living in a civilized society. I’m sure you utilize as many government services as the rest of us, so pay up like a good person. Yes, the government “services” make a difference because plantation owners never provided “services” such as shelter, food, etc. Slaves paid up in the form of labor. Cover charge for living in a civilized society? I am agains the income tax. Are you suggesting that civilized society is impossible without income tax? ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/36 "2012-11-08T20:40:32Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I believe your beef here is with mainstream economics, not just conservatives. Isn’t the current course taken by the Fed to boost asset prices so that folks will think they are more wealthy and spend more? After all, our problem is depressed aggregate demand, all we really need to do is man up and SPEND. That saving nonsense is for right wing nut jobs and Asians. The difference here–and it’s a subtle difference that conservatives have difficulty understanding–is that the actions of the Fed are predicated on the notion that boosting asset prices will lead to more spending. Now, economists can quibble over whether this really works, but note that the theory is driven by a reasonable, objective measure of reality: It’s reasonable to assume people will spend more money if they have more money, it’s reasonable to assume more consumer spending will boost the economy, and I have ways to verify increased asset prices, the expected increases in spending, and the expected improvement in the economy; therefore I can test this policy in the real world with objective measures. Conservatives, on the other hand, focus on the statistically unobservable mechanism lying between the stimulus-response that is more or less “confidence”. Now, liberal economists will use the word “confidence” as part of the explanation for the policy. But conservatives seem to over-emphasize the attitude itself as the secret to economic success. A recession doesn’t end because people magically get more confident, they get more confident because other policies are causing the recession to end. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/37 "2012-11-08T20:44:23Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Cover charge for living in a civilized society? I am agains the income tax. Are you suggesting that civilized society is impossible without income tax? Is it the federal income tax specifically which you consider a form of slavery, or does this cover all individual taxes–federal, state, and local? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/38 "2012-11-08T22:15:38Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > Is it the federal income tax specifically which you consider a form of slavery, or does this cover all individual taxes–federal, state, and local? Any income tax is a bad idea. Federal tax is especially bad because the functions it funds with the tax are unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/39 "2012-11-08T22:42:15Z")
I came looking for a thread about lessons to be drawn from the 2012 election - am I in the right room? Here’s one: you are \*always \*on mic and on camera. That ‘47%’ remark was much more damaging than it really should have been. I don’t think he believes that the 47% who don’t pay income tax are identical to the population he can’t convince, but he sure phrased it like that, because he thought he was off the record. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306/40 "2012-11-08T22:47:41Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Any income tax is a bad idea. Federal tax is especially bad because the functions it funds with the tax are unconstitutional. No, they are not. You are misinformed. If however you would like to provide a citation regarding the unconstitutional nature of federally funded programs I will be happy to read it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lessons-can-be-drawn-from-the-2012-election/640306.md?page=3)