# What lies in the current music frontier? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 4, 2005, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996 "2005-01-04T05:44:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2005, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/41 "2005-01-05T20:12:31Z")
Much as I like Franz Ferdinand, they sound like a cross between Wire and Josef K. Not exactly original, as **paulberserker** and **vinryk** said. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/42 "2005-01-05T20:31:16Z")
> [@vinryk](#): > > And **Evanescense**? > No way they are doing something new. > The Gathering (Dutch band) has been making their sound for years and years. > The only thing they added is that guy screaming over the top of it. 😕 So what? Evanescence is a commercial success. They didn’t come out of a vacuum, they grew out of the melding of pop/goth. Goth itself isn’t new, it’s been around since at least, what, the early eighties? Starting with “don’t call us goth” bands like Siouxie Sioux and The Cure? What counts as “original” for the purposes of this thread? All music evolved from earlier predecessors, rock 'n roll from rockabilly, the blues, etc. all the way back to some naked people on the African savannah bashing rocks together. I think if you want to see where the next big musical revolution will be taking place, check out what’s cooking in all the little garage bands and hole-in-the-wall NYC clubs. Something new is no doubt being born. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/43 "2005-01-05T20:37:59Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > I think if you want to see where the next big musical revolution will be taking place, check out what’s cooking in all the little garage bands and hole-in-the-wall NYC clubs. Something new is no doubt being born. I disagree, I think it will be from the net. Everyone and their mother has music editing and looping programs these days. They’ll be a lot of garbage out there, but something will emerge from it. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/44 "2005-01-05T20:57:47Z")
Mastodon kicks some serious ass, but I don’t know how groundbreaking they are. They kind of remind me megadethitallica back before the bloating set in. A great Album from 2004: Clutch; _Blast Tyrant_ I saw Mastodon and Clutch together about a year or so ago. It was quite a show. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/45 "2005-01-06T00:53:35Z")
> [@Crusoe](#): > > Much as I like Franz Ferdinand, they sound like a cross between Wire and Josef K. Not exactly original, as **paulberserker** and **vinryk** said. Wire? Really? I don’t hear it. Anyhow, they’re not terribly original. They’re good, but they just sound like post-punkified disco. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/46 "2005-01-06T03:47:50Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > What counts as “original” for the purposes of this thread? All music evolved from earlier predecessors, rock 'n roll from rockabilly, the blues, etc. all the way back to some naked people on the African savannah bashing rocks together. I think if you want to see where the next big musical revolution will be taking place, check out what’s cooking in all the little garage bands and hole-in-the-wall NYC clubs. Something new is no doubt being born. What I was looking for in my OP was simply innovation, be it evolutionary or revolutionary. Of course I don’t expect it not to come from something; I’m just trying to find branches that are growing furthest from the tree. I’m not neccessarily looking for “pop” or popular things (guess I shoulda made my OP clearer), but things which are influential in their genre or have the potential to be influential. What counts as true innovation is up to each of us to decide, I guess. From reading the responses, it seems that there’s nothing truly revolutionary going on right now? Fusion is the current hot thing, judging from references to “melodic hip hop”, “goth-pop”, “hardcore punk and heavy metal hybrid”, “mashing”, and the general “melt” between genres that someone talked about. I guess I’ve seen a lot of that as well, and I agree with the fellow that said that electronica is being subsumed into virtually everything, just like CGI has made its way into virtually every genre in the movies. World folk music (such as African drumming or Bhuddist chants) also gets used in random stuff, often pop-ized. Seems like the dance styles (salsa, et al) are also finding their way into pop/rock and techno just about tries to consume everything. Is this the entirety of the current frontier? Is the current array of musical genres a sufficiently wide enough field for innovators to play around in, or is there a vacuum just waiting to be filled (is being filled)? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/47 "2005-01-06T03:55:28Z")
I still maintain that there are no revolutions; that music (and art in general) move forward only a little bit at a time. It’s public tastes that change quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/48 "2005-01-06T04:23:50Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > Electronica, industrial, house etc. have traditioanly been dance (not necessarily pop) music [Fan of Chrome and Throbbing Gristle] Buh? Industrial is dance music? [/FoCaTG] ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/49 "2005-01-06T04:27:08Z")
> [@Hunter Hawk](#): > > [Fan of Chrome and Throbbing Gristle] Buh? Industrial is dance music? [/FoCaTG] I was thinking of early EinstĂźrzende Neubauten when I read that. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/50 "2005-01-06T05:05:32Z")
> [@Windwalker](#): > > Is this the entirety of the current frontier? Is the current array of musical genres a sufficiently wide enough field for innovators to play around in… In most cases, I would say the answer to this is yes. It’s easy to spot subtle but significant changes in music you know well, but in unfamiliar music often only revolutionary change is apparent (be it Stravinsky or the Sex Pistols). And I also think that revolutionary changes are far rarer than is being suggested by many in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/51 "2005-01-06T16:34:58Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > I still maintain that there are no revolutions; that music (and art in general) move forward only a little bit at a time. It’s public tastes that change quickly. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/52 "2005-01-06T17:29:38Z")
> [@Hunter Hawk](#): > > [Fan of Chrome and Throbbing Gristle] Buh? Industrial is dance music? [/FoCaTG] Ministry, Nizter Ebb, Front 242, Die Krupps, KMFDM all were pretty well played in dance clubs (if you knew which clubs to go to.) ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/53 "2005-01-06T17:56:48Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Ministry, Nizter Ebb, Front 242, Die Krupps, KMFDM all were pretty well played in dance clubs (if you knew which clubs to go to.) I think he was making the assertion that the origins of Industrial were far from the eventual common usage that describes such bands today. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/54 "2005-01-06T18:08:56Z")
> [@interface2x](#): > > I think he was making the assertion that the origins of Industrial were far from the eventual common usage that describes such bands today. Well, all the bands I mentioned had their start in the very early 80s, so I would hardly call them bands of today. Although, you’re right, Throbbing Gristle and Chrome had their start in the mid-to-late 70s. But there seems to be two distinct branches of techno: one more focused on electronics, the other on typical rock instrumentation. I was just making the comment that industrial music as dance music is not at all a shocking assertion. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/55 "2005-01-06T18:11:57Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Well, all the bands I mentioned had their start in the very early 80s, so I would hardly call them bands of today. Although, you’re right, Throbbing Gristle and Chrome had their start in the mid-to-late 70s. But there seems to be two distinct branches of techno: one more focused on electronics, the other on typical rock instrumentation. I was just making the comment that industrial music as dance music is not at all a shocking assertion. What’s techno got to do with it? The point is, some industrial is dance music (and that seems to be the most widespread version), but not all of it is. There are at least two other genres that can be described as industrial–one is a form of metal, and the other is experimental music. ---
**Author:** ![Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misery_Loves_Co)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/56 "2005-01-06T18:18:32Z")
The options in “new music” are either recombinations of existing ideas in new ways, and development of new avenues. E.G: Electronica represents the development of the “new” avenue of digital music - new things are available to the electronic musician that weren’t around before the “rise of the computers”. Rap-Metal is the exploration of combining Rap and Metal (Duh) So what combinations are possible? I know one guy who’s exploring rap-influenced rock, but it’s very light, kinda funky stuff. Sort of Red Hot Chilli Peppers Lite. Another guy I know’s band sounds like Type-O Negative meets the Beach Boys. Could these have a lasting sound? who knows. But it’s more likely than another round of nu-metal, or the current Hip Hop, or Pop stuff. An interesting thing to note, both with the Mash music **World Eater** mentioned and in Pop in general, is the amount of covers and rehashing of old material that’s around. We’ve got several bands doing prominent covers, or even entire cover albums. There are a slew of Biographies coming out in the theaters, and old musicals hitting the silver screen. It’s a phenomenon that is typical of a stagnant period. Musical Theater has been going through this for the past several years, where about the only thing getting noticed are the revivals. The new shows are stale before they premier or outright suck. And now in the world of music there’s nothing new to catch people’s ear so it’s profitable to catch their ear with songs they already know. > [@Mississippienne](#): > > I think the Next Big Thing is going to evolve out of industrial, or electronica. Maybe with some hip-hop influence. For that matter, I’ve been hearing some interesting Arabic/East Indian influences in hip-hop, and I’m looking forward to seeing where that might go. Well, this isn’t Arabic/East Indian in _hip-hop_: rather Arabic influences in Rock/Metal: [Graceful Abyss](http://www.gracefulabyss.com) [sub]disclaimer: I’m working with this group, but posting their website seems germaine to this discussion rather than a plug/advertisement.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/57 "2005-01-06T18:43:06Z")
I think the mention of Arabic/Indian influences are right on. In fact, I think fusing “world music” beats and instruments more and more into mainstream music is rearing it’s head. I mean, I know that world music stuff has come and gone over the past, but I think we’re starting to see some very interesting combinations out in front whetre they wouldn’t have been before. Not sure how well it’s selling, but Hikaru Utada’s recent US debut album with some production from Timbaland is a good example, I think. That weird song with Punjabi MC and Jay-Z that came out a whiole ago is another good example. Established artists in other, non-English speaking countries are trying to crack the big US music market, and finding US producers that will help them translate their sound for English listeners. I think we’re going to see even more of this in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/58 "2005-01-06T19:05:52Z")
> [@Necros](#): > > I think the mention of Arabic/Indian influences are right on. In fact, I think fusing “world music” beats and instruments more and more into mainstream music is rearing it’s head. I mean, I know that world music stuff has come and gone over the past, but I think we’re starting to see some very interesting combinations out in front whetre they wouldn’t have been before. Not sure how well it’s selling, but Hikaru Utada’s recent US debut album with some production from Timbaland is a good example, I think. That weird song with Punjabi MC and Jay-Z that came out a whiole ago is another good example. Established artists in other, non-English speaking countries are trying to crack the big US music market, and finding US producers that will help them translate their sound for English listeners. I think we’re going to see even more of this in the near future. In addition to this, making music from different geographic locations is becoming easier and will have an influence. Years ago, my band would either go to a rehersal studio, or everyone would meet at someone’s house. Finding a common time to meet up was a pain, and often resulted in rehersals getting pushed back, impairing development. These days, I can make a beat at 3 in the morning, email it to another guy, who works on it at his leasure, and send it back. So people have the power of home studios, and then don’t even need to live in the same country to work on music together. I don’t know how that will have an impact, but it most certainly will. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/59 "2005-01-06T19:55:37Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > What’s techno got to do with it? Brain fart. I meant “industrial,” not “techno.” Substitute and the sentence makes sense. Basically, the same distinction you just made, except you pointed out a third division of industrial. ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996/60 "2005-01-06T20:07:52Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > In addition to this, making music from different geographic locations is becoming easier and will have an influence. Years ago, my band would either go to a rehersal studio, or everyone would meet at someone’s house. Finding a common time to meet up was a pain, and often resulted in rehersals getting pushed back, impairing development. These days, I can make a beat at 3 in the morning, email it to another guy, who works on it at his leasure, and send it back. So people have the power of home studios, and then don’t even need to live in the same country to work on music together. > > I don’t know how that will have an impact, but it most certainly will. Very true. Musicians don’t even have to have met each other to form a band. Someone could listen to an artist’s music on the net, add something of his own, or start up a collaboration with other artists overseas they find intriguing. Crosscultural “virtual” bands could be the next big thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-lies-in-the-current-music-frontier/282996.md?page=4)