# What made Vader a Sith Lord? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 15, 2026, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922 "2026-06-15T22:37:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/21 "2026-06-16T01:48:25Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Yeah, so I don’t really get what Episode 9 explained. He was some random clone? Something they made in a test tube? He was an experimental clone of Palpatine created by a Sith cult. Sort of a Frankenstein’s monster, as he was an earlier experiment. Rey’s dad (Dathan) was another clone, though a much more subtle one; he was a hybrid of sorts and didn’t inherit any Force abilities (they manifested in Rey instead). The clones were called “strandcasts” and made through Sith alchemy rather than the science that Kamino used to make their clones. The results were a lot less predictable. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/22 "2026-06-16T01:57:14Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Rey’s dad (Dathan) was another clone, though a much more subtle one; he was a hybrid of sorts and didn’t inherit any Force abilities (they manifested in Rey instead). > > The clones were called “strandcasts” and made through Sith alchemy rather than the science that Kamino used to make their clones. The results were a lot less predictable. Wait, was all of that in the movie? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/23 "2026-06-16T02:45:56Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Wait, was all of that in the movie? Some of it was, certainly not all of it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/24 "2026-06-16T10:36:48Z")
We’re to the point now with SW lore that the movies showed not even 10% of what Lucasfilm’s “official story” was. The rest they dribbled out in various “about” books and in expanded commentary on DVDs, etc. And as noted above, the whole thing wasn’t planned; it mostly was invented as they went along, retconning to paper over some of the worst of the cracks. Then there’s the non-canonical fanfic & websites and … which outweighs the “official story” maybe 100 to 1. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/25 "2026-06-16T12:18:04Z")
I think “sith” might have been on the action-figure packaging, too. That’s where a lot of Star Wars lore originates. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/26 "2026-06-16T12:54:44Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Originally, Lucas meant the name to mean “dark father”, that’s where it came from (per Lucas himself in the interactive CD-ROM from LucasArts, “Star Wars: Behind the Magic”). I’ve always been extremely skeptical of the “Dark Father” thing. When the name “Darth Vader” first shows up, in the earliest drafts, it was applied to a fairly minor Imperial officer, not any kind of Force-wielder, not the major villain, and certainly not likely to be the hero’s secret father. I think it was just a name that sounded cool, and as Lucas was writing and re-writing it eventually made it to the main evil henchman. Yes, henchman. That’s clearly what Vader was in the first movie. Tarkin was in charge of the Death Star and all of the Imperial forces that we see. Vader was there to be intimidating, to do some hands-on fighting when needed, and to Force-choke random annoying guys during committee meetings. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/27 "2026-06-16T13:02:11Z")
Pretty much that. Star Wars is full of retcons, and Vader’s role is one of them. He ended up being so popular with fans that Lucas retconned his role to be much more important. And that includes his name, which became a title instead. Boba Fett got similar treatment when he got popular outside the direct context of the movies. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/28 "2026-06-16T13:05:37Z")
Man, don’t get me _started_ on Boba Fett! 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/29 "2026-06-16T14:19:37Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > I’ve always been extremely skeptical of the “Dark Father” thing. When the name “Darth Vader” first shows up, in the earliest drafts, it was applied to a fairly minor Imperial officer, not any kind of Force-wielder, not the major villain, and certainly not likely to be the hero’s secret father. I think it was just a name that sounded cool, and as Lucas was writing and re-writing it eventually made it to the main evil henchman. Agreed; I think Lucas made up that story after the fact. > [@Atamasama](#): > > I’m dubious about Lucas’s explanation about the origin of the word, considering that Vader wasn’t Luke’s dad when he first conceived of (and named) the character. I think it’s something he made up later that he thought sounded good. Where it actually came from, I have no idea. I’ve also heard theories about it being “Dark+Death”. Still, that’s the most “official” explanation that is out there as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/30 "2026-06-16T14:34:23Z")
I mean, “Darth Vader” obviously comes from “Dark” and “Invader”; just as later on, “Darth Sidious” came from “Dark” and “Insidious”. George Lucas has never been accused of being subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/31 "2026-06-16T15:05:59Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > Man, don’t get me _started_ on Boba Fett! Boba Fett? Boba Fett? Where? [turns around and knocks Boba into the Sarlaac pit] ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/32 "2026-06-16T15:18:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I mean, “Darth Vader” obviously comes from “Dark” and “Invader” Yes, that’s another theory, and I think that George may have been quoted in saying as much. It’s really a big mess as to what is true and what is BS made up to sound good. Another factoid… George went to high school with another kid named [Gary Vader](https://www.forcematerial.com/home/2016/12/01/the-origin-of-darth-vader-the-name), who was a football player one year older than him. He acknowledges that it might have subconsciously influenced that name choice, though he insists it wasn’t intentional. (In my headcanon, Vader’s real name is Gary, and he has secretly murdered everyone who has ever possessed that knowledge to preserve that secret. Because nobody would be afraid of Gary, Dark Lord of the Sith.) ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/33 "2026-06-16T15:33:05Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > George went to high school with another kid named [Gary Vader](https://www.forcematerial.com/home/2016/12/01/the-origin-of-darth-vader-the-name), who was a football player one year older than him… > > (In my headcanon, Vader’s real name is Gary, and he has secretly murdered everyone who has ever possessed that knowledge to preserve that secret. Because nobody would be afraid of Gary, Dark Lord of the Sith.) Goes a long way to explaining why ~~Gary~~ Darth is so comfortable wearing a helmet. Some people peak in high school. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/34 "2026-06-16T16:14:18Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > BTW, “Darth” is not a proper name, but a title for Sith Lord I thought you, of all people, would point out that Obi-Wan does call Vader “Darth” (“You can’t win, Darth.”) ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/35 "2026-06-16T17:56:41Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > In my headcanon, Vader’s real name is Gary, In my head it was “Garth”, and he got tired of being introduced by Obi-Wayne-a, his Jedi master, with “and with me as always is Garth.” So he used his skills to make the baddest-assed light saber ever, and killed all the Jedi. And then he started calling himself “Dark Garth”, or more easily, Darth, as he came to be known. Party on, Darth! ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/36 "2026-06-16T21:38:00Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I’m dubious about Lucas’s explanation about the origin of the word, considering that Vader wasn’t Luke’s dad when he first conceived of (and named) the character. I think it’s something he made up later that he thought sounded good. Where it actually came from, I have no idea. I’ve also heard theories about it being “Dark+Death”. It seems pretty clear that Lucas favored a certain literary sensibility of naming guys to subtly suggest they’re bad, and in what way they’re actually bad. It’s very easy to miss unless you’re reading very closely, but Lucas seems to hint that Darth Sidious is kind of insidious, Darth Tyranus might be a bit tyrannical, Darth Maul might have a tendency to maul people. So in that styling it seems likely to me that “Vader” is likely selected for its similarity to “Invader.” To spin a wild theory, I could imagine someone in 1977 asking Lucas what “Vader” means, just so: “So Vader is like, the Dutch word for ‘father’, could that have some hidden meaning you’re not telling us about?” “Uh… no… I hadn’t really… um… ACTUALLY HELL YEAH IT SURE DOES” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/37 "2026-06-16T21:44:12Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > It’s very easy to miss unless you’re reading very closely, but Lucas seems to hint that Darth Sidious is kind of insidious, Darth Tyranus might be a bit tyrannical, Darth Maul might have a tendency to maul people. > > So in that styling it seems likely to me that “Vader” is likely selected for its similarity to “Invader.” No question. The Sith Lords all have names that are “EVIL”. It’s actually pretty rare to find examples of neutral names among them, and a lot (if not all of them) are in the old Expanded Universe/Legends non-canon stories. Back when I played Star Wars: The Old Republic (the MMORPG from Bioware), one of my main characters that I played through all of the content with was a Sith Sorcerer who eventually earned the “Darth” title, and he went by Darth Venomuss. I knew what Lucas was doing and leaned into the concept. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/38 "2026-06-16T21:48:00Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > subtly suggest > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > It’s very easy to miss unless you’re reading very closely ISWYDT ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/39 "2026-06-16T22:40:01Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > It seems pretty clear that Lucas favored a certain literary sensibility of naming guys to subtly suggest they’re bad, and in what way they’re actually bad. It’s very easy to miss unless you’re reading very closely, but Lucas seems to hint that Darth Sidious is kind of insidious, Darth Tyranus might be a bit tyrannical, Darth Maul might have a tendency to maul people. But why does he sometimes pick _normal_ names, like Greedo? ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922/40 "2026-06-16T22:55:55Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > like Greedo? Or Porkins. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-made-vader-a-sith-lord/1030922.md?page=3)