# What mainstream media won't say: The fatal flaw in President Bush's "War on Terror". **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552 "2003-09-09T16:23:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/41 "2003-09-10T14:58:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Roger\_Mexico \* > \*\*The lie is: “Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” > > The truth doesn’t set you free, the truth makes you go crazy. \*\* Cheer up Roger!!! 😃 hmmm If you really believe that, why do you hang around this place? Do you think everyone here is crazy? ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/42 "2003-09-10T15:16:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*I admit it. I am the Ayatollah SPOOFE, and we have been secretly planning to oust non-Muslims for years, in the name of Allah. We have planted insurgent agents at convenience stores across Great Satan, and any second now we will use our Muslim Control Ship in orbit to transit a signal that will instigate all Muslims, worldwide, to attack. Your only Christian hope is to hop into your royal starfighters and try to blow up the ship… but our shields are too strong! Muhammed is with us! Resistance is futile! And when come back, bring pie! \*\* Just a thought here: Perhaps humor is not really appropriate when we consider the results of what happened to our country (assuming you are an American) two years ago tomorrow. The next time will potentially be much worse. A very well-informed person, Warren Buffett, says this: Billionaire Warren Buffett predicts a nuclear attack May 7 2002 “We’re going to have something in the way of a major nuclear event in this country,” said Buffett, the firm’s chief operating officer. “It will happen. Whether it will happen in 10 years or 10 minutes, or 50 years … it’s virtually a certainty.” [http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/05/06/1019441479049.html](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/05/06/1019441479049.html) I hope he’s wrong, but the way things are heating up around the world I wouldn’t bet against Warren. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/43 "2003-09-10T15:25:37Z")
But why does Mr. Buffett’s acknowledged genius at financial matters make him any kind of significant prognosticator or political and/or terroristic phenomena? Doesn’t taking Warren Buffett’s word on this subject make about as much sense as taking Richard Gere’s word on Tibet? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/44 "2003-09-10T15:26:12Z")
> [@](#): > > _GOM replying toDMC_ > No. That is exactly opposite from my reasoning. Sorry you are mistaken. It is exactly in line with your reasoning, it just gives a differently conclusion than you want. When this happens it is a good indication that your argument is faulty. Live and learn I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/45 "2003-09-10T15:40:33Z")
GOM, answer the question. If your God of peace started to once again order people to hack up babies, would you do it? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/46 "2003-09-10T17:32:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > All of them. Every single one, a mindless killing machine, programmed from youth to exterminate anything and everything non-Muslim. That’s why there’s so much unity between different Muslim sects and nations. > > Oh, wait… \*\* Now that’s not true. I personally know several people of Middle Eastern decent and I’m sure at least some of them haven’t blown anyone up. ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/47 "2003-09-10T19:42:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > \*\*Now that’s not true. I personally know several people of Middle Eastern decent and I’m sure at least some of them haven’t blown anyone up. \*\* Maybe that’s just what they _want_ you to think. 😉 In any event it seems obvious to me that “Islam” is a _Religion of Terror_ and **Baby Jesus** shall not rest until all of these _violent terrorists_ are struck down by the **Hand of the Righteous** in the name of the **One True Religion**. YMMV, of course. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/48 "2003-09-10T20:44:19Z")
I can’t see how Islam is any more warlike than conservative Christianity. Evangelicals in America are the most pro-military constituency of any size in this country. They have been gung-ho for every American war in my lifetime, excepting the peacekeeping missions during the Clinton administration, of course. Having had plenty of opportunity to observe them from close up, I have never seen any of the circumspection regarding war from evangelicals that one might expect from the proponents of a religion that is aware that God deeply loves each and every person that might get killed in a war. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/49 "2003-09-10T23:54:00Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by GOM (quote by Warren Buffett)_ > \*\* “We’re going to have something in the way of a major nuclear event in this country,” said Buffett, the firm’s chief operating officer. “It will happen. Whether it will happen in 10 years or 10 minutes, or 50 years … it’s virtually a certainty.”\*\* As the article stated, Buffett controls insurance companies. Specifically, property/casaulty insurance and reinsurance companies. He is financially incented to a) try to drive up rates and b) minimize risk by trying to socialize the largest ones, such as that of a nuclear, biological or chemical attack. He has no special knowledge of the odds of such an attack that I’m aware of. Also, to correct the article, he is Chairman and CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, not Chief Operating Officer. **GOM** , please answer my questions. If the truth is being hidden from us and you know what it is, you should tell us. How many of the ~billion Muslims are violent? How many have to be killed or defeated? ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/50 "2003-09-11T00:34:38Z")
Personally, I know many Muslims, and relatively few are transvestite lumberjacks. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_Mexico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f6c823/32.png) [@Roger\_Mexico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_Mexico)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/51 "2003-09-11T00:39:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GOM \* > \*\*Just a thought here: Perhaps humor is not really appropriate when we consider the results of what happened to our country (assuming you are an American) two years ago tomorrow. > > The next time will potentially be much worse. A very well-informed person, Warren Buffett, says this: > Billionaire Warren Buffett predicts a nuclear attack > May 7 2002 > > “We’re going to have something in the way of a major nuclear event in this country,” said Buffett, the firm’s chief operating officer. “It will happen. Whether it will happen in 10 years or 10 minutes, or 50 years … it’s virtually a certainty.” > > [http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/05/06/1019441479049.html](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/05/06/1019441479049.html) > > I hope he’s wrong, but the way things are heating up around the world I wouldn’t bet against Warren. \*\* Q:GUess where Warren Buffett was on the morning of 9-11? A: Offutt AFB. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_Mexico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f6c823/32.png) [@Roger\_Mexico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_Mexico)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/52 "2003-09-11T00:45:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GOM \* > \*\*Cheer up Roger!!! > > 😃 > > hmmm > > If you really believe that, why do you hang around this place? Do you think everyone here is crazy? \*\* Nope, just me 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sine\_Nomen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d26b3c/32.png) [@Sine\_Nomen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sine_Nomen)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/53 "2003-09-11T06:59:48Z")
**GOM:** > [@](#): > > I don’t know if he says it from ignorance, or if he says it because he hopes it is true, but two or three times now I have heard our President say: “Islam is a peaceful religion”. It’s not. You are defining Islam as violent based on the actions of Al-Qaida; specifically, this statement: > [@](#): > > “We announce there will be new attacks inside and outside (the U.S.) which would make America forget the attacks of September 11.” > > “We assure Muslims that al-Qaida ranks have doubled. … Our casualties are nothing compared to our (good) conditions now. Our coming martyrdom operations will prove to you what we are saying.” If I were to follow the same line of reasoning - that is, the actions of a subset of Muslims define Islam - I could just as easily say that the actions of a subset of Christians defines Christianity. Obviously, the [Westboro Baptist Church](http://www.godhatesfags.com/) does not define Christianity. If I were to claim that Christianity is a violent or hateful religion, surely you would ask for verses from the New Testament, or examples from the life of Jesus. Surely if I were to cite the Crusades or the Inquisition, you would reply that such examples are not representative of Jesus’ true message of compassion and justice. That said, since you have claimed that Islam is a violent religion, I would ask for similar such support from you. Perhaps you could provide a selection of Suras or Hadiths, and an explanation as to why they support your claim. In a similar vein, perhaps you could offer your opinions on the verses cited by Al-Qaida to justify its agenda. I also would ask you why you feel no distinction is to be made between current Islamic practice and the texts that (don’t) inform it. On that note, since you seem genuinely concerned about violence in the Islamic community, perhaps you could offer your opinions on the ongoing (lack of) debate within Islam over Ijtihad and the Shariah. Do you think the theological differences between Sunnis and Shias preclude one sect’s arguments from being valid to the other? I have appreciated your scholarly and rational input thus far, and would love to hear what you think about other problems facing Islam. (By the way - if you find yourself copying a list of Suras and explanations from a site that agrees with your opinion of Islam, as I imagine you might, think carefully about your motives.) ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/54 "2003-09-11T15:44:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > \*\*1. But why does Mr. Buffett’s acknowledged genius at financial matters make him any kind of significant prognosticator or political and/or terroristic phenomena? > > 1. Doesn’t taking Warren Buffett’s word on this subject make about as much sense as taking Richard Gere’s word on Tibet? \*\* 1. Buffett is heavy into the insurance industry. He’s paid the big bucks to know what the odds are for bad things to happen in America. That’s how he runs his business correctly, based on potential risk. IIRC he has even suggested that the insurance industry needs some kind of financial protection from the US government in case of a nuclear attack. Just one A-bomb could potentially bankrupt many insurance companies. Insurance companies own tons and tons of stock. It’s a domino effect on our society… 2. No. Of course, YMMV. You’re free to go with Gere if you find his advice useful. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/55 "2003-09-11T16:02:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\*1. I think, and most people think, that the number is tiny – maybe as low as the single-digit thousands. > > 1. The OP seems to be opining that Islam generally is a violent religion and that the Bush administration and the press are covering up the propensity to violence. > > 2. One reasonable inference is that he believes that the total number of people who have to be defeated is much, much larger than is currently believed. \*\* 1. Hopefully you are correct. 2. Right. I just don’t know if it’s done from ignorance, wishful thinking, or with a specific purpose in mind. 3. If we start with that roughly one billion estimate and take only .01% we still get 100,000 people. Thousands of them have been trained in terrorists camps. For America, the .01% seems valid, but do you find that tiny % reasonable for some of the Arab countries? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/56 "2003-09-11T16:32:14Z")
> [@](#): > > _GOM said_ > If we start with that roughly one billion estimate and take only .01% we still get 100,000 people. Thousands of them have been trained in terrorists camps. For America, the .01% seems valid, but do you find that tiny % reasonable for some of the Arab countries? Why does .01% “seem” valid. Are you playing number guessing games or is this based on some comprehensive study of Islam in America and abroad? FWIW, estimates are ~5-6 million US muslims so you are guessing ~500-600 dangerous Islamists in the US. ---
**Author:** ![scule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@scule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scule)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/57 "2003-09-11T17:14:38Z")
Perhaps the most salient question **GOM** should be answering is what is it specifically about Islam that you take to mean it is a violent religion? And don’t quote some Al-Qaeda jackass, I mean actual Qu’ran script, or from the Hadieths, something along those lines. A proper quote, in context, from the source is the only viable authority. People throughout history have misinterpreted the intentions of many religions and done harm, so let’s not rely on what others say. So show us the proof. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/58 "2003-09-11T23:28:09Z")
I disagree, **scule**. I have complete confidence that a reasonably diligent person could find plenty of commands, quotes, etc. in Muslim literature, even canon, that on the face would seem to indicate that Islam is a violent religion. Certainly I could do the same with the Bible to “prove” that Christianity and Judiasm are violent religions. Except that, by and large, they are not. More probative to me would be evidence – a survey, perhaps, or crime rates, or a demonstrated propensity to start wars (controlled for despotism) or something like that – that the _behavior_ of Muslim people is on balance more violent than that of non-Muslims. **GOM** , you’re kidding now, right? You call Islam a violent religion and you want to argue about how many _hundredths of a percent_ of its adherents are violent? Do you not see just how silly that is? I think we’re mostly on the same page on how to deal with terrorists, but I think you haven’t given careful thought or evaluated evidence of just what makes one a terrorist. Which makes you wrong about how to deal with terrorism. The charge you make in your OP just doesn’t stand up. ---
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/59 "2003-09-12T02:14:51Z")
Answer the question, GOM. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/60 "2003-09-12T02:24:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GOM \* > I’ve actually got liberals defending the position of President Bush. > > 😉 I’m not sure I’d be proud of this fact! Basically, you’ve come up with an idea so nutty that even Bush won’t endorse it! That’s not something I’d personally be proud of! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552.md?page=4)