# What mainstream media won't say: The fatal flaw in President Bush's "War on Terror". **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552 "2003-09-09T16:23:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/61 "2003-09-12T02:43:12Z")
BTW, GOM, now is a good chance to check the real color of Mars for yourself, if you still don’t trust NASA. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/62 "2003-09-12T07:13:58Z")
Isn’t it true there are many people of the Muslim faith throughout the world helping the US capture and detain the Islamic extremist we are seeking? If this is true (and I think it is), then our local militant flag-wavers should cease with the “all Muslims are out to kill us” routine. ---
**Author:** ![And\_that\_s\_the\_bottom\_line](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df788c/32.png) [@And\_that\_s\_the\_bottom\_line](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/And_that_s_the_bottom_line)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/63 "2003-09-12T11:05:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stick monkey \* > \*\*Or my new favorite logic argument. > > : : God is Love > : : Love is Blind > : : Ray Charles is Blind > : : Therefore: > : : Ray Charles is God. \*\* Then there’s my personal favorite: “All terrorists are people. Therefore all people are terrorists.” ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/64 "2003-09-12T11:46:55Z")
When I first read the OP, I though “Oh God, not _another_ “Islam is eeeeeevil” thread!” But after reading the whole thread so far, I have to say that i’m pretty proud of my fellow Dopers for keeping up the fight against ignorance and telling the OP where to stick his assertions. He’s obviously convinced that Islam is an inherently violent religion, and that the “War on Terror” is doomed to failure unless we wake up and admit that all Muslims are rabid killers who are out to impale Christian babies on spikes and slaughter infidels until the word od Allah has been spread across the world in a tide of blood and glory. Sheesh… ---
**Author:** ![scule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@scule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scule)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/65 "2003-09-12T15:14:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\*I disagree, **scule**. I have complete confidence that a reasonably diligent person could find plenty of commands, quotes, etc. in Muslim literature, even canon, that on the face would seem to indicate that Islam is a violent religion. Certainly I could do the same with the Bible to “prove” that Christianity and Judiasm are violent religions. Except that, by and large, they are not. > > More probative to me would be evidence – a survey, perhaps, or crime rates, or a demonstrated propensity to start wars (controlled for despotism) or something like that – that the _behavior_ of Muslim people is on balance more violent than that of non-Muslims. > > **GOM** , you’re kidding now, right? You call Islam a violent religion and you want to argue about how many _hundredths of a percent_ of its adherents are violent? Do you not see just how silly that is? > > I think we’re mostly on the same page on how to deal with terrorists, but I think you haven’t given careful thought or evaluated evidence of just what makes one a terrorist. Which makes you wrong about how to deal with terrorism. The charge you make in your OP just doesn’t stand up. \*\* I see your point, **manhattan** , but my post was in regards to Islam in the abstract, not in practice. I can see how both ideas can be valid, but my intent was in regards to showing that Islam, as written in it’s truest form, either is deliberately violent or not. I think that a representative sample of Muslims from various Muslim nations could tell you that Islam is currently suffering from a violent period (of that was the findings of the survey - I bet you and I can most others probably assume it isn’t the case). But this must be compared to the 1400 year history of the faith, and it’s relative level of violence to determine if that point of view is correct. As an aside, in the event of that sort of comparison, I think Christianity will fail the violence test in comparison to Judaism or Islam. But that’s just an aside. In any case, I still would like to see **GOM** ’s response to either of our questions, and whether he/she has any serious evidence to back up the claims made so far. ---
**Author:** ![scule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@scule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scule)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/66 "2003-09-12T15:17:45Z")
Also, I should add that yes, anyone can take quotes from the Bible, Talmud or Qu’ran to prove that they are violent faiths, but those quotes generally ignore context and intent, or obfuscate further developments (New Testament vs Old, etc). So overall those “proofs” generally fall under scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![TonyJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9c0ed/32.png) [@TonyJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonyJ)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/67 "2003-09-12T22:49:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scule \* > \*\*In any case, I still would like to see **GOM** ’s response to either of our questions, and whether he/she has any serious evidence to back up the claims made so far. \*\* Nonsense - the word of **Warren Buffett** has been offered as evidence! He claims that at some time in the future - that is, from now to infinity - that America will suffer _something_ resembling a nuclear event that _could be construed as an attack_! Obviously this hard-core evidence is irrefutable, and it logically follows that rest of the evidence provided in this thread is likewise irrefutable. You should also notice that “Islam” contains the phrase _“I Slam,”_ which implies that all of its followers _perform wrestling moves._ Ergo Islam is the most violentest thing _ever_. Q.E.D., ~fin ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/68 "2003-09-13T06:44:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CarnalK \* > \*\*1. Why does .01% “seem” valid. Are you playing number guessing games or is this based on some comprehensive study of Islam in America and abroad? > > 1. FWIW, estimates are ~5-6 million US muslims so you are guessing ~500-600 dangerous Islamists in the US. \*\* 1. 99.99% seem peaceful, for now. I could be proven wrong, of course. 2. With as horrible as our border protection is, we can only hope that 500 to 600 is all we have to deal with. The last number I heard is that we are getting roughly 2,000 illegal immigrants into America every day. If just two out of those 2,000 are bad guys you have over 700 new terrorists in the country in just one year. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/69 "2003-09-13T06:47:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bibliovore \* > \*\* > > He’s obviously convinced that Islam is an inherently violent religion, and that the “War on Terror” is doomed to failure unless we wake up and admit that all Muslims are rabid killers who are out to impale Christian babies on spikes and slaughter infidels until the word od Allah has been spread across the world in a tide of blood and glory. > > Sheesh… \*\* Obviously. 😉 That’s why I chose a miniscule number like .01% in a post that you apprently ignored. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/70 "2003-09-13T06:57:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ccwaterback \* > \*\*1. Isn’t it true there are many people of the Muslim faith throughout the world helping the US capture and detain the Islamic extremist we are seeking? > > 1. If this is true (and I think it is), then our local militant flag-wavers should cease with the “all Muslims are out to kill us” routine. \*\* 1. True. However the opposite is also true. The Sudan, Iran, Syria and Pakistan all come to mind, in varying degrees. 2. Since nobody here ever said that, did you have an actual point to make? And since you mention flag-wavers, isn’t it sad how few American flags were flown this September 11? Americans forget quickly… ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/71 "2003-09-13T07:04:59Z")
**GOM** , please stop plucking made-up numbers out of mid-air and provide some actual answers to the questions that have been asked of you, particularly those posed by **scule** and **manhattan**. ---
**Author:** ![Sine\_Nomen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d26b3c/32.png) [@Sine\_Nomen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sine_Nomen)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/72 "2003-09-13T07:05:05Z")
**GOM:** Are you purposefully ignoring my post? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/73 "2003-09-13T15:09:24Z")
> [@](#): > > _GOM said_ > > 1. 99.99% seem peaceful, for now. I could be proven wrong, of course. Ah yes, I think I know where you are coming from now. So you roll 4d10 every time you meet a Muslim in a random encounter, 0001 means he is a militant. What ruleset? How long have you been running your campaign? (it’s a joke and a nerd detector all in one) ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/74 "2003-09-13T19:54:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\*He has no special knowledge of the odds of such an attack that I’m aware of. > \*\* I’m glad that you at least admit you are not aware of what Buffett knows. He didn’t become a multi-billionaire by sticking his head in the sand. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/75 "2003-09-13T19:59:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sine Nomen \* > \*\ ***GOM:** Are you purposefully ignoring my post? \*\* hmmm 6 posts. And this: “(By the way - if you find yourself copying a list of Suras and explanations from a site that agrees with your opinion of Islam, as I imagine you might, think carefully about your motives.)” I don’t get my opinions from websites. What are your motives? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552/76 "2003-09-13T20:32:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GOM \* > \*\*hmmm > > 6 posts.\*\* Post count is **never** a measure of the quality of a poster. Feel free to answer his question now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-mainstream-media-wont-say-the-fatal-flaw-in-president-bushs-war-on-terror/200552.md?page=3)