# What Makes a Christian?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [January 29, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009 "2014-01-29T02:12:25Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 11
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/201 "2014-02-06T02:19:40Z")
> [@WheatCat](#):
>
> I guess another way of putting it would be to allow God to _disguise_ himself as a man, without being truly human in the orthodox Trinitarian sense.
You mean like what Zeus used to do when he wanted to go slumming to see what was going on? The difference is, _Zeus never claimed to be all-knowing, so he actually learned things on his little ventures._
---
### Author:  [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2014, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/202 "2014-02-06T04:19:56Z")
(post#200 page#4)
[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Another vote for say what. There was no such requirement for the former in the Old Testament(you know-the place where all those messianic requirements were officially listed), and the latter may not be doublespeak…but it might as well be.
[/quote]
Before I can address this what is “former” what is “latter” what brought up the OT reference and what, exactly, are you referring to as “doubletalk”? And sure, if there is anything in the OT “messianic requirements” which you think might support your argument and undercut mine let’s hear about them.
My original stipulation was:
(post #186) “that Christ was the foremost historical human teacher of sacred truths.”
In the first part of your reply you gave a case which that definition did not cover:
(post #188) “And it excludes those sects that teach that Jesus wasn’t a human being, but a manifestation of their god”
I amended my definition to include the type of Christ I think you were referring to :
(post #190) “Allowing Christ to have appeared human rather than to have been human would conform to the requirement that he be the foremost teacher of scared truths and is no obstacle in the search for a definition. Belief that Christ is coeternal with the godhead is a tenet accepted by most Christians since the Patristics. It is neither a required by common definition, nor disqualifying.”
In post #192 Monty said “Huh?” to this:
“Allowing Christ to have appeared human rather than to have been human would conform to the requirement that he be the foremost teacher of scared truths, and is no obstacle in the search for a definition.”
so I rephrased:
(post #193) “I guess another way of putting it would be to allow God to disguise himself as a man, without being truly human in the orthodox Trinitarian sense.”
I am not sure how much longer I will feel like replying. I’ll stick around a bit longer before declaring myself the winner and retiring, though.
---
### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/203 "2014-02-06T04:27:08Z")
> [@WheatCat](#):
>
> I am not sure how much longer I will feel like replying. I’ll stick around a bit longer before declaring myself the winner and retiring, though.
Ahh! The George Aiken strategy.
---
### Author:  [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/204 "2014-02-06T04:30:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> You mean like what Zeus used to do when he wanted to go slumming to see what was going on? The difference is, _Zeus never claimed to be all-knowing, so he actually learned things on his little ventures._
Did Zeus ever disguise himself as a human? The only two I recall hearing about were the eagle and the swan. But yeah, why not a Christian God of the Disguise?
---
### Author:  [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/205 "2014-02-06T04:32:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> Ahh! The George Aiken strategy.
Thanks, I couldn’t remember who I had stolen that from.
---
### Author:  [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/206 "2014-02-06T14:27:43Z")
The typo below is in a critical enough place to need correction even this long after posting.
> [@WheatCat](#):
>
> (from post #161 page#4)
> Acceptance of Christ’s teaching is an objective foundation criterion of any reasonable definition. Expert opinion is not subject to ad populum restriction, so I should be permitted to say I doubt there **has never dissent** on that point from a professional theologian or philosopher.
Change to read “ **has ever been dissent** ”.
---
### Author:  [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/207 "2014-02-06T14:32:00Z")
Is **WheatCat** being forced to defend Christianity first? The OP question is about what makes a Christian, something non-Christians cannot answer, as correctly pointed out by **Czarcasm**. Faith is included, and you have to have faith to understand. In logical terms, it called the fallacy of “begging the question” … but that’s allowed in religion [wolfish grin] the unique is illogical.
---
### Author:  [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/208 "2014-02-06T15:10:17Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#):
>
> Is **WheatCat** being forced to defend Christianity first? The OP question is about what makes a Christian, something non-Christians cannot answer, as correctly pointed out by **Czarcasm**. Faith is included, and you have to have faith to understand. In logical terms, it called the fallacy of “begging the question” … but that’s allowed in religion [wolfish grin] the unique is illogical.
I do not interpret anything in this thread to require a defense of Christianity. I disagree that a non-Christian must be unable to answer OP. I also disagree that circular argument is ever permissible. I do not understand why something unique must be illogical.
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/209 "2014-02-06T15:12:41Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#):
>
> Is **WheatCat** being forced to defend Christianity first? The OP question is about what makes a Christian, something non-Christians cannot answer, as correctly pointed out by **Czarcasm**.
That’s just a bit twisted around. What I have been pointing out is that non-Christians _can_ probably reach a consensus on the definition specifically because they stand outside and have no emotional/psychological investment in any particular sect. It’s the _insiders_, those who have been indoctrinated into a particular religion/sect, that cannot agree upon a common definition for reasons previously stated. Christianity is a strong brand name that has fallen into public domain, and each religion/sect has grabbed it and defined it to best fit their particular flavor of worship.
---
### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2014, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/210 "2014-02-13T12:11:01Z")
It would seem to me, that being a Christian one would follow"all" the teachings and way of life that Jesus said, and did. Even the words that states;" Take up your cross and follow me"
One can say they are one thing than act another way!
---
### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/211 "2014-02-13T15:47:37Z")
But I don’t _own_ a cross…should I make one? Or will Amazon deliver it? And where should I follow? To Heaven? The grave? IKEA?
That “take up your cross” bit is a metaphor, yes? So we’re once again back to wildly differing interpretations of what it means. I’m not sure that helps clarify things any.
.
---
### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2014, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/212 "2014-02-14T12:49:49Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#):
>
> Well, for a lot of Christians, the last point may be sticking point - which leads other people to say “Catholics aren’t Christians” because Catholics believe faith & good works leads to heaven (the “path to heaven” is more than just believing those things). There are also those Liberal Christians who don’t necessarily believe the path to heaven involves believing a specific thing.
>
> Regarding Mormons specifically, that Trinity thing looms pretty heavily ;).
The NT also says,“Faith without works is dead”.
---
### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2014, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/213 "2014-02-14T12:57:45Z")
> [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#):
>
> I am very broad and inclusive in my definition of “Christian.” This is not because my theology is liberal, but because my vocabulary is practical. Given that many millions of people throughout the world believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the English language has a pressing need for a word to describe these people. And I think “Christian” is a far more convenient phrase than “people who believe that Jesus is the Son of God.”
I know this is what I have quoted before but according to the Psalmist (he called all the people he was talking to0 ,gods and sons of god. Jesus used this as an example of why he called God his father.
---
### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/214 "2014-02-14T13:08:54Z")
> [@Monty](#):
>
> 'T’aint no mind-reading going on here, dude. Either you’re intentionally spreading misinformation–which has been refuted repeatedly on this very site and you have actually seen the correct information–or you simply can’t process a passage written in quite clear English or you’re emotionally invested in the malarkey you’re posting being accepted by others.
>
> Three possibilities. No mind-reading required.
>
> Advice: Learn what a fact is.
>
> More advice: Read reputable histories.
A fact is the truth. What really is,both by religion and any other thing. The fact is that Jesus wrote nothing and we take the word of some other humans. Because someone says God said something doesn’t make it fact, just belief in that person.
---
### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/215 "2014-02-14T13:16:50Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#):
>
> Humans? Humans are just temples for the Holy Spirit of God at least the ones that hear God calling them and then God through the power of the Holy Spirit comes and makes his home with what you call humans.
>
> The Holy Bible was written by men of old with the Spirit of God within them. So you can honestly say that God wrote the Holy Bible. God wrote the first five books of the old testament through Moses and in fact told him at a very old age not to write too much, least he should become weary.
>
> The body is dead without the spirit of life within them everyone has a spirit. That’s what God gave man when He created them both male and female.
>
> God is a Spirit … the Holy Bible plainly states this, but to quote scripture and verse boars people that don’t know Him and doesn’t help if you don’t have a sincere desire to know Him. Christians (Christ followers) already know that what I say is true.
>
> Christ is a title for the Anointed One by the way … I prefer to call Jesus the Promised One or the Messiah. When you become a baptized Christian you receive the anointing and the presence of the indwelling Spirit of God now resides in you unless you grieve him that is, but that is another subject.
>
> Many people think that when they die that they go to heaven, but they don’t go any where, because the body is dead without the spirit … What really happens is that the Holy Spirit goes back to heaven from which He came and takes your personality with Him.
>
> Flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of heaven … it must be a long way from here or is it really just as close as you have faith?
>
> I know what I say is hard to understand even for some Christians, but I am here for you if you wish to discuss the truth.
You first have to prove there is a heaven. and there is a God, or it is just your belief.
---
### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/216 "2014-02-14T14:04:29Z")
> [@monavis](#):
>
> A fact is the truth. What really is,both by religion and any other thing. The fact is that Jesus wrote nothing and we take the word of some other humans. Because someone says God said something doesn’t make it fact, just belief in that person.
Good grief. [Communication](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/communication) isn’t your forte, is it?
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/217 "2014-02-14T15:12:37Z")
> [@monavis](#):
>
> You first have to prove there is a heaven. and there is a God, or it is just your belief.
No-the only thing anyone has to do in _this_ thread is to state what they think it takes to make a Christian.
---
### Author:  [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/218 "2014-02-14T15:27:31Z")
> [@monavis](#):
>
> A fact is the truth. What really is,both by religion and any other thing. The fact is that Jesus wrote nothing and we take the word of some other humans. Because someone says God said something doesn’t make it fact, just belief in that person.
This thread isn’t about whether the Bible is factual or whether heaven exists, whether there is a god, whether Jesus really was the messiah, or opinions about the truth of any particular dogma. This thread is asking how to describe what type of beliefs define Christianity, and what beliefs/sects are (in)consistent with the umbrella term “Christian”, and if it’s even possible to have a definition that everyone would agree on.
---
### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/219 "2014-02-15T13:20:06Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#):
>
> Humans? Humans are just temples for the Holy Spirit of God at least the ones that hear God calling them and then God through the power of the Holy Spirit comes and makes his home with what you call humans.
>
> The Holy Bible was written by men of old with the Spirit of God within them. So you can honestly say that God wrote the Holy Bible. God wrote the first five books of the old testament through Moses and in fact told him at a very old age not to write too much, least he should become weary.
>
> The body is dead without the spirit of life within them everyone has a spirit. That’s what God gave man when He created them both male and female.
>
> God is a Spirit … the Holy Bible plainly states this, but to quote scripture and verse boars people that don’t know Him and doesn’t help if you don’t have a sincere desire to know Him. Christians (Christ followers) already know that what I say is true.
>
> Christ is a title for the Anointed One by the way … I prefer to call Jesus the Promised One or the Messiah. When you become a baptized Christian you receive the anointing and the presence of the indwelling Spirit of God now resides in you unless you grieve him that is, but that is another subject.
>
> Many people think that when they die that they go to heaven, but they don’t go any where, because the body is dead without the spirit … What really happens is that the Holy Spirit goes back to heaven from which He came and takes your personality with Him.
>
> Flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of heaven … it must be a long way from here or is it really just as close as you have faith?
>
> I know what I say is hard to understand even for some Christians, but I am here for you if you wish to discuss the truth.
After re-reading this It is just your beliefs and you are entitled to them, but Belief is not fact!
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/220 "2014-02-15T17:32:48Z")
> [@monavis](#):
>
> After re-reading this It is just your beliefs and you are entitled to them, but Belief is not fact!
_Not the topic of this thread!_
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009.md?page=10)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009.md?page=12)