# What Makes a Christian?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [January 29, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009 "2014-01-29T02:12:25Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/21 "2014-01-29T08:44:39Z")
p.p.s. If the links show the footnotes when you don’t want to see those or don’t show the footnotes when you do want to see them, simply click on the menu item to show/hide footnotes.
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### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/22 "2014-01-29T10:30:51Z")
> [@marshmallow](#):
>
> Sorry for the double post, [but does Valentinianism have the weirdest Christian beliefs about Jesus?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentinianism#Christ) Or at least, the most complicated?
Man, those Romans had some crazy fanfictions.
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### Author:  [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/23 "2014-01-29T12:23:34Z")
It’s like Plato and the Kabbala had a love child.
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### Author:  [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/24 "2014-01-29T12:54:46Z")
Thanks Dope! The comment thread on Facebook got pretty nasty when two Mormons piped in to say they were Christian, and the brother called them liars. Yikes!!!
But you guys have provided some great links and info. I did quite the internet dive last night, and feel slightly better informed for it. Ignorance fought! 🙂
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### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/25 "2014-01-29T13:05:08Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#):
>
> In its simplest, what set of beliefs qualify one as a Christian??
>
> I was on Facebook (mistake) talking about the new Mitt Romney movie. I commented that while I disagreed with his politics, I believed he was a good man… That he really walked the walk as a Christian. My friend’s brother commented that Mormons weren’t Christian. Huh?
>
> Is this like that “Catholics aren’t Christians” thing? Or are Mormons missing one of the fundamentals of Christian faith?
>
> To my mind, it’s pretty simple:
>
> - Jesus is the son of God
> - he died for the sake of man’s salvation
> - the path to heaven is to believe those two things
>
> Am I missing something? Don’t Mormons believe those things? Fight my ignorance here!
If Catholics aren’t Christian then the other churches are using the RC and Orthodox book as the word of God. The New Testament was Called the Word of God, and inspired by God, by the decision of the Roman and Orthodox Bishops it was they who threw out anything that the didn’t call inspired’; that was at the Council of Nicacea. in 325 (at the suggestion of Constantine). There were other writings that were in existence but were discarded. . So their beliefs are based on the words of people they don’t call Christian.
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### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/26 "2014-01-29T13:08:21Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#):
>
> Well, for a lot of Christians, the last point may be sticking point - which leads other people to say “Catholics aren’t Christians” because Catholics believe faith & good works leads to heaven (the “path to heaven” is more than just believing those things). There are also those Liberal Christians who don’t necessarily believe the path to heaven involves believing a specific thing.
>
> Regarding Mormons specifically, that Trinity thing looms pretty heavily ;).
And also according to that Same Bible it says; “Faith without work is dead”!
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### Author:  [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/27 "2014-01-29T13:17:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Seeing all the different ways the Bible can be(and has been) interpreted, written, rewritten etc., coupled with all those that ignore the Bible in favor of the “God” that that communicates with them directly, I’d say that any one who thinks that they are a Christian should be considered a Christian.
If you follow that line of reasoning, then you’d have to consider Jews for Jesus to be Jews, but IMO they aren’t. I guess you could question whether they _really_ think they are Jewish or do they know they are part of a scam.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/28 "2014-01-29T13:44:25Z")
> [@Telemark](#):
>
> If you follow that line of reasoning, then you’d have to consider Jews for Jesus to be Jews, but IMO they aren’t. I guess you could question whether they _really_ think they are Jewish or do they know they are part of a scam.
And if you follow all lines of reasoning to their ridiculous extremes we’d have to abandon all lines of reasoning…but that’s not something reasonable people do, is it? “Jews For Jesus” is a known con job, And the purpose behind it is easily researched.
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/29 "2014-01-29T13:56:34Z")
Since no one has mentioned this, this is the main difference of Mormonism from classical Christianity-
That our God the Father was once a mortal man from a prior Creation who became God through faithful obedience to His Divine Father, and through faithful obedience to our Divine Father, we can become Divine like Him. The difference between our Father God and us is not a difference of nature but of degrees.
New Scriptures, modern-day prophets, proxy rituals for the dead, polygamy, Jesus visiting the Western Hemisphere, pre-existence, and degrees of Heaven & Hell are all minor compared to the doctrine of Eternal Progression. It turns the very definition of the Biblical God on its head.
And THAT is why no major Christian organization, no matter how doctrinally liberal & ecumenical, can acknowledge Mormon teaching as consistent with Biblical Christianity.
That is not to say that individual Mormons might not be Christians, but it’s by God’s graciousness in overlooking such a blatantly wrong belief.
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### Author:  [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/30 "2014-01-29T14:01:22Z")
If we agreed on what makes a Christian, there’d only be one Church [sigh] “Let not the eye saith to the foot ‘I have no need of thee’” or some such.
Simplest – A Christian is anyone who believes that Christ is the Son of God.
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/31 "2014-01-29T14:07:53Z")
As to what makes a Christian-
Trust in the God of the Bible, OLD and New Testaments (Marcionites are not Christian);
that Jesus is God’s Only Son, His Fullest Revelation, maybe even in sharing Deity with the Father & the Spirit (I will include Arians & Trinitarians, tho I think Arianism is a major misunderstanding);
that somehow Jesus died to save us from our sins;
that God then raised Jesus bodily from the dead & through Him offers us eternal life with Him;
that Jesus reigns with God as Lord of everything;
that the Bible is a reliable God-given account of all this.
Personal commitment, a good faith effort to obey what God/Jesus commands, baptism into a fellowship, a practice of prayer & Bible study, & graciousness to others should our of faith in God/Jesus.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/32 "2014-01-29T14:09:01Z")
> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> And THAT is why no major Christian organization, no matter how doctrinally liberal & ecumenical, **can** acknowledge Mormon teaching as consistent with Biblical Christianity.
(bolding mine)“Can” and “does” do not necessarily mean the same thing. Are you saying that no major Christian organization recognizes The Church Of Latter Day Saints as a Christian religion, or are you saying that no major Christian organization _should_ recognize them as a Christian religion?
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/33 "2014-01-29T14:09:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> And if you follow all lines of reasoning to their ridiculous extremes we’d have to abandon all lines of reasoning…but that’s not something reasonable people do, is it? “Jews For Jesus” is a known con job, And the purpose behind it is easily researched.
If you mean the larger movement of Messianic Jews, no, it’s not, and I would also say neither is the specific JFJ organization, tho I at least understand that accusation.
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/34 "2014-01-29T14:12:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> (bolding mine)“Can” and “does” do not necessarily mean the same thing. Are you saying that no major Christian organization recognizes The Church Of Latter Day Saints as a Christian religion, or are you saying that no major Christian organization _should_ recognize them as a Christian religion?
The National & World Councils of Churches certainly don’t. If you can point to a major Christian organization outside of the LDS which does recognize it as Christian, I will certainly retract that.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/35 "2014-01-29T14:13:13Z")
> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> As to what makes a Christian-
>
> Trust in the God of the Bible, OLD and New Testaments (Marcionites are not Christian);
> that Jesus is God’s Only Son, His Fullest Revelation, maybe even in sharing Deity with the Father & the Spirit (I will include Arians & Trinitarians, tho I think Arianism is a major misunderstanding);
> that somehow Jesus died to save us from our sins;
> that God then raised Jesus bodily from the dead & through Him offers us eternal life with Him;
> that Jesus reigns with God as Lord of everything;
> that the Bible is a reliable God-given account of all this.
>
> Personal commitment, a good faith effort to obey what God/Jesus commands, baptism into a fellowship, a practice of prayer & Bible study, & graciousness to others should our of faith in God/Jesus.
_That_ narrows the field a wee bit, doesn’t it? Of the major Christian organizations, no matter how doctrinally liberal & ecumenical, which ones don’t qualify(besides the Mormons, of course)?
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/36 "2014-01-29T14:14:32Z")
> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> If you mean the larger movement of Messianic Jews, no, it’s not…
If I had meant it, I would have said it.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/37 "2014-01-29T14:17:21Z")
> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> And THAT is why no major Christian organization, no matter how doctrinally liberal & ecumenical, can acknowledge Mormon teaching as consistent with Biblical Christianity.
The Mormons are a “major Christian organization” if they think they are, and can simply recognize themselves. And no doubt do.
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/38 "2014-01-29T14:28:20Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> The Mormons are a “major Christian organization” if they think they are, and can simply recognize themselves. And no doubt do.
No major Christian organization outside of Mormonism.
There are major Catholic or Protestant or Orthodox or Ecumenical Christian organizations which recognize each other as Christian. But AFAIK, no such organization recognizes the LDS.
(They may recognize the former Re-organized LDS Church, now Community of Christ, which had always rejected the doctrine of Eternal Progression.)
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### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/39 "2014-01-29T14:32:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> If I had meant it, I would have said it.
OK, some people use “Jews for Jesus” to mean the entire Messianic Jewish movement. Heck, there are probably people who don’t realize JFJ is just one group in it.
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### Author:  [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-christian/680009/40 "2014-01-29T14:32:48Z")
**FriarTed** it’s strange to me that you would consider Marcionites not Christian. (Im not one, but I have more than a few sympathies that way myself). Their opponents considered them heretical Christians, but Christians nonetheless. I think Arianism makes much less sense than Marcionism- marcion was surely right that the Old and New Testaments are _very_ hard to reconcile, both morally and theologically, though it can be done. Steven Runciman, the historian of Manichaeanism and it’s precursors and successors, is clear that it was a _Christian_ heresy, not a heresy of anything else.
At the loosest possible level, I’d say a Christian believes in God, that God lives us, and that Jesus Christ is the fullest and best self-expression of God, and that his life and death redeemed us.
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