# What makes a gay icon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 10, 2013, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860 "2013-10-10T09:04:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![watergallop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3bc359/32.png) [@watergallop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watergallop)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/21 "2013-10-10T18:04:55Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Judy took “hanging out” with gay guys to the extreme- she MARRIED at least two gay guys. The last one actually got her daughter Liza to marry his boyfriend, Peter Allen. Also, according to the Judy biography _Get Happy_ (which I highly recommend), her dad was gay as well. ---
**Author:** ![watergallop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3bc359/32.png) [@watergallop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watergallop)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/22 "2013-10-10T18:11:42Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > A combination of great and unique talent, an underdog backstory, and the star has both mainstream appeal and acceptance/appreciation of gay fans. > > Example: Dolly Parton > > She has great great talent and a unique style, she was born dirt poor and had to fight for everything she has, and she’s as popular with 80 year old retired military and 30 year old waitresses as she is with gay men **while making jokes about how if she’d been a boy she’d have been a drag queen** and others that make her “aw shucks, people’s people” outlook clear. I think partly it’s a sense of connection and a sense of acceptance by the mainstream (which was super important before gays became more accepted in the past two decades). > > Related to above, Donna Summers was another gay icon who fell from favor because of homophobic comments she was alleged to have made at a concert. (There was no recording of the comments and she denied ever making them.) I don’t think it really hurt her career though: her songs could still pack a dance floor. > > Then there was the [Denver optometrist enigma](http://www.theonion.com/articles/denver-optometrist-not-sure-why-he-has-gay-cult-fo,128/). I think that touches on something. Many of the women mentioned are described as fabulous… I think something Cher, Madonna, Dolly Parton, and others in that ilk have in common is a combination of being ultra-feminine and ultra-powerful. Demonstrating an exaggerated femininity that doesn’t hinge on being weaker than masculinity, but that rather is a natural component of confidence and power. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/23 "2013-10-10T20:15:18Z")
Heck, even Smokey the Bear and his dens of forestry. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/24 "2013-10-10T20:36:13Z")
Bette Midler - She’s completely larger than life, especially in her stage shows. She also got her major start performing at a gay bathhouse in 1970 (along with Barry Manilow) and named one her albums Bathhouse Betty. She is quoted as saying “Despite the way things turned out [with the AIDS crisis], I’m still proud of those days. I feel like I was at the forefront of the gay liberation movement, and I hope I did my part to help it move forward. So, I kind of wear the label of ‘Bathhouse Betty’ with pride”. Geesh, I can’t believe she’s almost 70. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/25 "2013-10-10T20:58:56Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > A combination of great and unique talent, an underdog backstory, and the star has both mainstream appeal and acceptance/appreciation of gay fans. > > Example: Dolly Parton > > She has great great talent and a unique style, she was born dirt poor and had to fight for everything she has, and she’s as popular with 80 year old retired military and 30 year old waitresses as she is with gay men while making jokes about how if she’d been a boy she’d have been a drag queen and others that make her “aw shucks, people’s people” outlook clear. I think partly it’s a sense of connection and a sense of acceptance by the mainstream (which was super important before gays became more accepted in the past two decades). I think Dolly Parton is an example of someone who isn’t so much a gay icon as an icon period. That doesn’t mean she’s not a gay icon, but that she’s an icon for so many other people that saying “gay icon” is kind of… selling her short. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/26 "2013-10-11T09:44:36Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I think Dolly Parton is an example of someone who isn’t so much a gay icon as an icon period. That doesn’t mean she’s not a gay icon, but that she’s an icon for so many other people that saying “gay icon” is kind of… selling her short. I dunno - I think it’s possible for someone to be a general Icon without being a Gay Icon - Elvis is Iconic, I’d say, but I don’t think he’s _generally_ considered a Gay Icon (Jailhouse Rock notwithstanding 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/27 "2013-10-11T12:55:52Z")
Shrug, I’ve seen groups of Elvises in Pride Parades. That doesn’t count? ---
**Author:** ![Jennyrosity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@Jennyrosity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennyrosity)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/28 "2013-10-11T14:17:50Z")
A lot of this makes sense but I think what I’m struggling with why some people AREN’T gay icons. I mean, is Tina Turner? If not she should be - strong, ballsy woman who’s suffered and come out on top, she should be up with Judy and Liza, surely, and yet I’ve not heard her mentioned as such - either IRL or on this thread. Katherine Hepburn doesn’t seem to have half the gay icon status that Audrey does, and I can’t for the life of me think why. Dolly is just an all-round Legend, so I’m sorry, gay community, you’re going to have to share 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/29 "2013-10-11T15:15:36Z")
Nice. Tina _is_ a good question, like my question about Bowie upthread. I would like to suggest that Tina is probably more respected vs idolized. Diana Ross, an African American contemporary, is much more of a Gay Icon. Could it be Tina’s rawer, more naturally bluesy style? Are there many very-Blues GI’s? Now watch someone pop up with one likethat and make me feel like an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/30 "2013-10-11T15:17:30Z")
Tina Turner IS a gay icon (or at least was in the 80s/90s). I’ve seen plenty of Tinas at drag shows and parades. She’s got a touch of Tragic Diva and a lot of Ballsy Diva. I love Katharine Hepburn, but she really isn’t much of a gay icon. There’s no gay sensibility there…I don’t get any kind of fabulosity feel for Kate. She was very private, first of all…other than her affair with Spencer Tracy, she seems (from this point in time looking back, anyway) to be 99% her work, and only 1% a real person outside those roles. There have been biographies and quasi-biographies since her death that delve into her personal life, but it’s still a kind of a scholastic discipline to tease out HER from the interviews she gave while she was working. As for Audrey, we love our gamines as well. She played quirky, interesting, bohemian types a lot. She was very big-hearted…she spent most of the later years of her life as a UN goodwill ambassador for UNICEF. Sometimes there’s just a fudge factor…some people ARE and some people AREN’T and it’s really very difficult to tell why any given person falls on which side of the fence. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/31 "2013-10-11T15:24:49Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Are there many very-Blues GI’s? Now watch someone pop up with one likethat and make me feel like an idiot. Billie Holiday? Very Tragic Diva. Insane talent, prone to vices that are all too familiar to many gay men (addiction, both drugs and alcohol) and eventually carried off by those vices. The Ms. Ross connection (through _Lady Sings the Blues_) helps also. I mean, you don’t see very many Billie impersonators around, but she’s still a bit of an icon. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/32 "2013-10-11T15:30:38Z")
Cool; thanks **jayjay**. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/33 "2013-10-11T16:09:30Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > … Kathy Griffin, … Ellen DeGeneres and even Joan Rivers would be able to fill a theater with only Gay fans in no time. [snipped to pull out the three names I want to ask about] So, a couple of comedians … Ellen because she’s a lesbian, I think, her stuff is very wholesome for the most part. Both of the other two have very tightly wound, multiple plastic surgery personae – are there other female comedians with different personal styles who would count as gay icons? Lisa Lampanelli (sp?), Margaret Cho, Wanda Sykes? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/34 "2013-10-11T16:13:04Z")
Wanda Sykes is also a lesbian. Lisa Lampanelli – I’ve heard her talk about her gay audience, while she insults them. But she’s an insult comic, so she insults everyone. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/35 "2013-10-11T16:17:17Z")
And Margaret Cho is bi, according to her. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/36 "2013-10-11T16:19:57Z")
Ooh! Cyndi Lauper! Can’t believe I almost forgot her. Even before she started the True Colors tours, she was a gay icon. Again, quirky, bohemian, interesting and flamboyant. And real talent…if you only know her from _She’s So Unusual_ way back in the early 80s, look for some more recent stuff. She has an actual voice and she’s managed to train away a lot of the accent. I’d suggest youtubing some stuff from her standards album of a few years ago, _At Last_. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/37 "2013-10-11T16:20:48Z")
Right, which is why I mentioned Wanda and Margaret. I was just wondering if they’d be considered gay icons, or just gay. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/38 "2013-10-11T16:48:57Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Right, which is why I mentioned Wanda and Margaret. I was just wondering if they’d be considered gay icons, or just gay. Margaret and Wanda would be borderline I think. I’ve seen both both referred to as such and I personally like both but I’m not sure either really hit icon status. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/39 "2013-10-11T17:57:11Z")
I’ve been a Kate Bush fan since 1978, and somewhere along the line, she’s become a gay icon. Not surprising, as she’s always been about wildly theatrical performances, and even writing [a song about a gay couple.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKU73RmWOkU) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860/40 "2013-10-11T23:52:06Z")
Thanks for starting this thread. I’ve often wondered this myself. Weirdest drag sighting- a man dressed as Yetta, Fran’s grandmother from The Nanny. I still can’t quite wrap my head around that. I’m positive it was Yetta.The large transparent plastic purse had “Yetta Lives!” written on it in gold glitter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-gay-icon/670860.md?page=3)