# What makes a good manager? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 28, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313 "2010-09-28T02:44:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/21 "2010-10-11T21:22:38Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > He labeled people who complained about others but were afraid to confront these people as “chicken-shit leaders”. > So before you ever talk smack about someone else again ask yourself if you could say the same thing to that persons face? If not, why not? Why haven’t you confronted them already? I have been places where the level of tension is so great that people are forbidden from confronting co-workers over any issue, no matter how small. You had to take it to a Supervisor, who would deal with it. Don’t like how John looks at you? Supervisor. Billy talking smack about you? Supervisor. Sally reeks of fish? Supervisor. Talk to them directly? Write up. Not your job to tell other people how to look, talk, act, smell. I’ve been other places where such things are merely frowned upon as “troublemaking”. Both would be examples of Bad Management. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/22 "2010-10-11T21:58:57Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > I would also say feedback is an important part of the job. While noone likes to hear things they need to improve on, in my neck of the woods that is often shied away from far too much. In other areas the converse is probably more true. > > Otara I’d love to see the place which gives too much feedback - realizing that feedback and yelling are two different things. One reason that managers hate performance review is that it forces them to do something they’ve been avoiding all year. One of the basic rules of managing is that nothing said during a performance appraisal meeting should be a surprise. If someone is doing something that needs correction, it needs to be corrected ASAP, not four months later. Ditto good stuff. Yes, more easily said than done, especially in a way that gets heard. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/23 "2010-10-11T22:27:23Z")
Manangers are just goons to keep you away from the Haves. Everything they say is in service to the Haves/a diversion to keep you from the truth. They have little to do with your real work; they’re just there to keep you uncomfortable so you keep working and lining the Have’s pockets. Any deviation from this is met with extreme prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/24 "2010-10-11T22:52:32Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > Manangers are just goons to keep you away from the Haves. Everything they say is in service to the Haves/a diversion to keep you from the truth. They have little to do with your real work; they’re just there to keep you uncomfortable so you keep working and lining the Have’s pockets. Any deviation from this is met with extreme prejudice. Fight the power, brother. My department would get half the work done that it does if we didn’t have a manager and everyone had to fend for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/25 "2010-10-12T01:25:30Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > Manangers are just goons to keep you away from the Haves. Everything they say is in service to the Haves/a diversion to keep you from the truth. They have little to do with your real work; they’re just there to keep you uncomfortable so you keep working and lining the Have’s pockets. Any deviation from this is met with extreme prejudice. What is your “real work”? Every task a worker performs is part of a larger picture. A good manager’s job is to help their charges understand how their role fits into the bigger picture. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/26 "2010-10-12T02:34:25Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Pretty much. Basically it’s a ranking. All the managers sit in a room and rank all the associates and senior associates. Then the directors rank us and the partners rank them. > > The problem I have with this is that there is no clearly defined system or criteria for the rankings. Just some matrix of vague bullet points. Not to mention that no manager can accurately compare staff because no staff can work with every manager. It’s all arbitrary which means it all comes down to personality, attitude, relationships and whim. Essentially it’s the same process my college fraternity used to extend offers to potential candidates. Ahh, “calibration.” Rankings are often forced into some sort of distribution by business unit that varies with the overall performance of the business. The better the BU does, the more top grades it can give out. Naturally the distribution of rankings is not imposed on each level of the hierarchy. People higher up the chain give themselves the top grades and whatever is left over is handed to the rank and file. In a good year, there are plenty of high rankings to go around. But when things go badly, people fight harder and stab each other more without knowing that their chances of getting a good score get lower and lower. Great system. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/27 "2010-10-12T08:38:52Z")
A good manager knows the strengths and weaknesses of each employee, and assigns work to take advantage of the strengths and avoid the weaknesses. A good manager knows how to motivate people. A lot of this is knowing what is important to each employee (money, respect, interesting work, public recognition, opportunity to advance. . .) A lot of it involves treating employees like human beings, not like interchangeable parts or beasts of burden. A good manager gives prompt and appropriate feedback. Part of this is knowing that praise can be public, while criticism should be private. A good manager keeps employees focused on their jobs. A big part of this is shielding employees from distractions and time-wasters such as excessive meetings, meddling from other departments, etc. A good manager conveys the priorities and goals handed down from above without insulting his or her employees (this can be hard sometimes). A good manager condenses and conveys information from his or her employees to upper management in such a way that the important stuff gets noticed. A good manager says “no” when appropriate and makes it stick. A good manager works hard and acts with integrity. Setting a good example is the best kind of leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/28 "2010-10-12T18:18:57Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > Ahh, “calibration.” > > Rankings are often forced into some sort of distribution by business unit that varies with the overall performance of the business. The better the BU does, the more top grades it can give out. Naturally the distribution of rankings is not imposed on each level of the hierarchy. People higher up the chain give themselves the top grades and whatever is left over is handed to the rank and file. In a good year, there are plenty of high rankings to go around. But when things go badly, people fight harder and stab each other more without knowing that their chances of getting a good score get lower and lower. > > Great system. Wow, that sucks. Every place I’ve been has had the allotment based on the group under review. In the good reviews I’ve been involved with, we used “natural ranking” which was assigning people to buckets of whatever size was appropriate. The metric my boss used was that if the discussion went on for five minutes without any clear distinction emerging, the people went into one bucket. One big problem with forced distributions is that as a group matures, the people really low should get bounced, and everyone else should be getting better. Having an unsatisfactory category after a big layoff means either that HR is a bunch of clueless morons or managers didn’t get rid of the right people. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/29 "2010-10-12T19:06:16Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Wow, that sucks. Every place I’ve been has had the allotment based on the group under review. In the good reviews I’ve been involved with, we used “natural ranking” which was assigning people to buckets of whatever size was appropriate. The metric my boss used was that if the discussion went on for five minutes without any clear distinction emerging, the people went into one bucket. > > One big problem with forced distributions is that as a group matures, the people really low should get bounced, and everyone else should be getting better. Having an unsatisfactory category after a big layoff means either that HR is a bunch of clueless morons or managers didn’t get rid of the right people. When business is poor, the reward for busting your ass and surviving multiple rounds of layoffs is usually “Meets Expectations,” often worse than whatever you received the previous year when more people were competing. The calibration meetings get longer and more vicious, and more fallout ensues from the endless cycle of badmouthing. It’s a real morale-booster. I believe the way this plays out is common to many large corporations. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/30 "2010-10-13T13:12:28Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > 2\> “They very clearly told us to light our clients on fire and that cannot be right, so for now we obviously won’t be doing that. If anyone calls you on the fact that our clients are not being burned to death before their eyes, please direct them to me. I expect this is either a very bad typo, or someone has gone off the deep end and will be removed from the building in short order. But remember, this is on MY head, and I’m ‘awaiting clarification’. So please follow MY instructions on this and refer any angry executives to me.” In one cartoon, Dilbert and Dogbert are trying to read an executive’s handwriting. They conclude it says “All the clients must be killed at once”. Just after Dilbert leaves, carrying a large axe and complaining he always gets the worst assignments, Dogbert pipes up “Or maybe it says ‘billed’” (and **Chimera** nailed it pretty well, IMO) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/31 "2010-10-13T13:57:17Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > > [@Voyager](#): > > > > The tricky part comes when upper management wants you to broadcast a message which is total nonsense. > > That’s easy. You start by saying “Mr. Boss has told me to advise you that…” > > Whenever I gave orders as a middleman that I knew were bullshit I would always let the employee know that this was the way upper management wants things done. Period. If you have a better solution talk to them. Them: “:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:!” Me: “This comes from the 9th floor.” Them: “:(:(:(:(☹ _sigh_” > [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > A good manager knows the strengths and weaknesses of each employee, and assigns work to take advantage of the strengths and avoid the weaknesses. Rather than avoid the weaknesses, and if resources allow for it, I prefer to work on reinforcing the weak areas. For example, I used to be in a team where we distributed the work ourselves (I once called it “an equilateral democracy”) and if we got something about Data Cleansing being in a hurry it went to me (as I was best at DC), but if we had time it went to Randy, who was worst, with my help (so he’d get better at it). ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/32 "2010-10-14T03:05:33Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] Well, Chimera just stole my post [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=CrazyCatLady] In addition to Chimera’s excellent list [/QUOTE] > [@Quercus](#): > > (and **Chimera** nailed it pretty well, IMO) Ok, so will someone in the Minneapolis area please hire me as a Supervisor or Manager? 😛 I have 17 years of IT experience, 4 years of Security experience and 2 years in Call Center Tech Support. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/33 "2010-10-15T13:34:20Z")
Interestingly, I think most people recognize what makes a good manager. At yet, there are so very few of them. I wonder what it is about corporations that allows them to tolerate so many inept managers. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/34 "2010-10-15T15:14:04Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I wonder what it is about corporations that allows them to tolerate so many inept managers. There [are](http://dilbert.com/fast/1995-02-05/) [several](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dilbert_Principle) [theories](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle). ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/35 "2010-10-15T15:34:58Z")
One thing I’ve come to believe is true over the last year or so is that someone hired directly into a manager spot is going to suck unless they’re very, very competent. They don’t know the tasks their employees do, they don’t know the problems they face, and an employee is unlikely to trust them enough to teach them. And even then, as long as the employees have to teach the manager, the manager’s authority is undermined. The manager is simply not effective at being the employees’ representative and so instead is only higher management’s representative, since higher management will talk to the manager, which only further increases employee distrust. A competent manager can work hard and succeed at overcoming those obstacles, and someone with experience doing the work isn’t necessarily going to have the qualities needed for management (Peter Principle), but I’m fairly confident in the truth of the above. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/36 "2010-10-15T19:56:47Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Interestingly, I think most people recognize what makes a good manager. At yet, there are so very few of them. I wonder what it is about corporations that allows them to tolerate so many inept managers. The thing inept second or third level managers hate the most is competent lower level managers. The reason I’m no longer a manager is that my upward evaluation from my reports was far, far better than the one my VP got. I don’t mind - we flattened and it was either no reports of 16, and I’ll take none, having had 16 in an old job. But I’ve actually had many more good managers than bad ones, including some great ones. Maybe I’m just lucky. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/37 "2010-10-15T20:02:04Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > One thing I’ve come to believe is true over the last year or so is that someone hired directly into a manager spot is going to suck unless they’re very, very competent. They don’t know the tasks their employees do, they don’t know the problems they face, and an employee is unlikely to trust them enough to teach them. And even then, as long as the employees have to teach the manager, the manager’s authority is undermined. The manager is simply not effective at being the employees’ representative and so instead is only higher management’s representative, since higher management will talk to the manager, which only further increases employee distrust. > > A competent manager can work hard and succeed at overcoming those obstacles, and someone with experience doing the work isn’t necessarily going to have the qualities needed for management (Peter Principle), but I’m fairly confident in the truth of the above. You are confusing technical competence with managerial competence, which is exactly why the Peter Principle is right on the money. If the manager is expected to make low level technical decisions, yeah, he should know the stuff. If he is expected to enable work and make strategic decisions, knowing the big picture is more important than knowing the details of what people do. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/38 "2010-10-15T21:28:19Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > One thing I’ve come to believe is true over the last year or so is that someone hired directly into a manager spot is going to suck unless they’re very, very competent. They don’t know the tasks their employees do, they don’t know the problems they face, and an employee is unlikely to trust them enough to teach them. And even then, as long as the employees have to teach the manager, the manager’s authority is undermined. The manager is simply not effective at being the employees’ representative and so instead is only higher management’s representative, since higher management will talk to the manager, which only further increases employee distrust. I would say this is 100 percent true. 90% of being a manager is relationships. Knowing not only your people but your boss, your bosses bosses and all the various people in the company you need to actually get stuff done. It’s probably one of the reasons more senior management than me will often clean house after a merger or big promotion. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313/39 "2010-10-15T21:36:30Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You are confusing technical competence with managerial competence, which is exactly why the Peter Principle is right on the money. If the manager is expected to make low level technical decisions, yeah, he should know the stuff. If he is expected to enable work and make strategic decisions, knowing the big picture is more important than knowing the details of what people do. But someone who’s not familiar with their employees’ needs can’t make informed decisions on their behalf and have their trust. There’s two ways that can be remedied: either a new manager works hard to understand and listens to their employees, which takes a rare breed of person and also takes a good bit of time, or the manager is selected from the existing pool of employees _provided that person also has managerial aptitude_. The latter, IMO, is easier and more likely than the former. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-good-manager/555313.md?page=1)