# What makes a man? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063 "2004-04-09T00:02:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/41 "2004-04-09T17:22:00Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Jeez! > > Listen, I’m not saying gay people are inferior. > > I’m SAYING that if your gay you can’t really call yourself a real man in the sense that _I_ think the OP is talking about. > > Being offended by this would be as ridiculous as a man with no legs being offended if someone said “You could never be a professional football player.” > > Does the term “The emperor has no clothes!” ring a bell? > > And if my son turns out gay, I’ll love him the same as I always have. Jeez is right. There is no standard for what a ‘real man’ is, thus the very question is flawed. The concept of ‘real man’ can only be boiled down to: has an XY chromosome pair. XY Chromosomes=Real Man. Sexual expression is irrelevant. To claim that straight men are ‘real men’ and gay men are not is ludicrous. Your comparison between gay men and a person missing limbs is a strawman. Gay men are not missing body parts or physical functioning. Just because gay men don’t sleep with women does _not_ mean they are lesser than their straight bretheren. Right now, the Emperor is slightly devoid of clue and needs to be a bit more enlightened if he’s ever to deal with the theoretical reality of a gay son well. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/42 "2004-04-09T17:27:31Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Uh, sorry if you’re gay, you’re not NOT a real man. > > I don’t have anything against gays personally. I do know however that part of what makes a man is his ATRACTION towards the female gender. > To me what makes a man a man (among other things) is his willingness to take the brunt of all lifes hardships for his children and/or wife/gf. > > By that I mean if your destitude and have only enough food to feed one person; a real man would feed his w/gf or children BEFORE he fed himself. > > stuff like that… Wow. I have no idea what ATRACTION is. If you meant attraction and that defines you as a man, then you not only slur gay men, but the celibate, the asexual, and members of the clergy. What you state as ‘being a real man’ are social constructs that come out of bad country western songs. Please hit your buzzer before you answer, you almost won a toaster. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/43 "2004-04-09T17:37:15Z")
> [@Omnipresent](#): > > Uh, a penis and balls? > > Wasn’t very good at biology but, seems to be a no brainer to me. > > What makes a “good” man? Another question. How to make a good man: Preheat oven to 400 degrees. Take 10 large onions, dice them. Combine with two ground bulbs of garlic and butter, add two dashes of cayenne, and two teaspoons of teriyaki sauce, twelve pounds of bread crumbs, eight cups of water. Stuff the cleaned inner cavity with the onion stuffing after the inside is thoroughly coated with butter. Coat the entire outside with butter, put in a huge roasting pan, and pour 20 cups of water around the roast. Bake for 25 minutes for each poun. Baste ever 15 minutes for a moist yet crispy skin. Oh… silly me. That’s from my baked camel recipe. Still, not a bad idea. I think they call it ‘long pig’. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/44 "2004-04-09T17:47:36Z")
> [@Mockingbird](#): > > How to make a good man: > > Preheat oven to 400 degrees. > > Take 10 large onions, dice them. Combine with two ground bulbs of garlic and butter, add two dashes of cayenne, and two teaspoons of teriyaki sauce, twelve pounds of bread crumbs, eight cups of water. > > Stuff the cleaned inner cavity with the onion stuffing after the inside is thoroughly coated with butter. Coat the entire outside with butter, put in a huge roasting pan, and pour 20 cups of water around the roast. > > Bake for 25 minutes for each poun. Baste ever 15 minutes for a moist yet crispy skin. > > Oh… silly me. That’s from my baked camel recipe. > > Still, not a bad idea. I think they call it ‘long pig’. > > 😃 What, no snips and snails and… puppy dog tails? OK so that’s what little boys are made of, but inside every great man is a really cute little boy. IMHO, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/45 "2004-04-09T18:33:33Z")
> [@TellMeI'mNotCrazy](#): > > … but inside every great man is a really cute little boy. IMHO, anyway. Kinda like a TurDucKen? ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/46 "2004-04-09T18:35:57Z")
**VarlosZ** nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/47 "2004-04-09T18:36:04Z")
> [@TellMeI'mNotCrazy](#): > > . . . inside every great man is a really cute little boy. . . . So, Michael Jackson is a great man? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/48 "2004-04-09T18:54:47Z")
Feeling slightly sappy and sentimental, I’m going to try to distill some good ol’ fashioned Japanese _bushido_-esque philosophy with the following: If a man does not have his Honor, then he is not a Man. ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/49 "2004-04-09T18:55:19Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > . . . So, Michael Jackson is a great man? No, no, no, not “Every great man is inside a really cute little boy.” Yeesh! …Giggling at the TurDuckEn. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/50 "2004-04-09T19:09:44Z")
> [@Mockingbird](#): > > Wow. > > I have no idea what ATRACTION is. If you meant attraction and that defines you as a man, then you not only slur gay men, but the celibate, the asexual, and members of the clergy. > > What you state as ‘being a real man’ are social constructs that come out of bad country western songs. > > Please hit your buzzer before you answer, you almost won a toaster. Sorry **Mockingbird** , but I’ve got to give him this one. And I hate Country Western. Note, however, that it’s not necessarily “Wife and Children”, it could very well be “Mate and Adopted child” or any other thing that triggers the “provider/defender” reflex. A “Real Man” does what needs to be done, despite fear. A “Real Man” does his best to provide for his loved ones… doesn’t matter if the wife makes more money, doesn’t matter if they live in a cave… as long as you are trying, that’s the point. A “Real Man” will die to defend his own. It’s a hard standard, and not one that is particularly popular with those that are overly concerned with “Socially Acceptable” terms and norms. But if a man, no matter his build or attitude, made it a point to eat the last of the food in the house without seeing to it his loved ones were able to eat, he’s not a man. It’s actually kind of hard to put in terms that are able to be put down on paper… ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/51 "2004-04-09T19:21:23Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Sorry **Mockingbird** , but I’ve got to give him this one. And I hate Country Western. > > Note, however, that it’s not necessarily “Wife and Children”, it could very well be “Mate and Adopted child” or any other thing that triggers the “provider/defender” reflex. > > A “Real Man” does what needs to be done, despite fear. > A “Real Man” does his best to provide for his loved ones… doesn’t matter if the wife makes more money, doesn’t matter if they live in a cave… as long as you are trying, that’s the point. > A “Real Man” will die to defend his own. > > It’s a hard standard, and not one that is particularly popular with those that are overly concerned with “Socially Acceptable” terms and norms. But if a man, no matter his build or attitude, made it a point to eat the last of the food in the house without seeing to it his loved ones were able to eat, he’s not a man. > > It’s actually kind of hard to put in terms that are able to be put down on paper… That’s not true. That is a societal creation that some believe only belongs to ‘real men’. Gay men as well as women, straight and gay also: Protect their loved ones. Will fight and die to protect their people in war. Will starve so their kids can eat. That doesn’t define them as real women anymore than it defines real men. What it does define is a person who thinks of others and puts the needs of the group above their own. It is maturity. It has nothing to do with gender or sexual preference. Do you have any other concepts to show that hold no basis in fact as being ‘a real man’? ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/52 "2004-04-09T19:25:03Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > . . . So, Michael Jackson is a great man? No, that is a skanky man inside… Well, you know how to finish it. To complete the joke nausates me. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/53 "2004-04-09T22:26:43Z")
I’m not going to debate something so subjective. I will however stand by my assertation that if you’re gay; there is SOMETHING going on with you that isn’t quite normal. Now what that something is, wheather it be brain chemistry or if its a bad childhood I don’t know. I don’t care and I don’t think it really matters. The only thing that really matters is if we treat said gay people with the same dignity and respect as we do everone else. It was my opinion that this SOMETHING would prevent a gay man from being a “real man” in the sense that I thought the OP was talking about. (you know, Hooters calander hanging in the garage. Stereotypical things like that) We could sit here and list all sorts of good qualities as to “what makes a man” and I’d be willing to bet that you could use the same said qualities to define what makes a woman. So maybe the OP should have read “What makes a good person.” If I offended anyone of my fellow gay dopers I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![MinniePurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@MinniePurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinniePurl)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/54 "2004-04-09T22:52:53Z")
What makes a man is identifying as a man. This is usually, but not necessarily always, associated with having a Y chromosome and testicles. I think that perhaps the intent of the OP (sort of) was “What makes a man a good person?” What makes someone a good person isn’t linked to gender or sexual orientation. At least IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/55 "2004-04-10T00:59:25Z")
> [@Mockingbird](#): > > That’s not true. That is a societal creation that some believe only belongs to ‘real men’. > > Gay men as well as women, straight and gay also: > > Protect their loved ones. > Will fight and die to protect their people in war. > Will starve so their kids can eat. > > That doesn’t define them as real women anymore than it defines real men. > > What it does define is a person who thinks of others and puts the needs of the group above their own. It is maturity. > > It has nothing to do with gender or sexual preference. > > Do you have any other concepts to show that hold no basis in fact as being ‘a real man’? Please note, and try to avoid smacking yourself in the face with your knee due to it’s jerking, that I never said “Only Straight Men do this”. A generation of single mothers has learned it. Thousands of widows all over the world have learned it. Gay men, Gay women… all have learned to do these things. If I had to label it, I would label it more “How to be a noble human being”, but that’s not what the title asked. I was going with “Real Man”, despite the fact that the PC Nazi’s would be clamorring for heads in short order. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/56 "2004-04-10T01:19:03Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Please note, and try to avoid smacking yourself in the face with your knee due to it’s jerking, that I never said “Only Straight Men do this”. > > A generation of single mothers has learned it. > Thousands of widows all over the world have learned it. > Gay men, Gay women… all have learned to do these things. > > If I had to label it, I would label it more “How to be a noble human being”, but that’s not what the title asked. I was going with “Real Man”, despite the fact that the PC Nazi’s would be clamorring for heads in short order. You stayed with the ‘real man’ bs. Kneejerk was not where I went, nor was I being PC. Pardonnez moi for finding some of the neanderthal like words on what comprises a ‘man’ offensive. It isn’t as if I was the only one offended… just the most vocal in responding. I went with a response to your words and no further, which is far from kneejerk. Give Isolde my enduring affections. 😉😃 ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/57 "2004-04-10T02:09:28Z")
I 'spose my head is in the same place as the ones who define “being a man” in traditional (including sexist / heterosexist) ways, just approaching from the other flight pattern. I’m male, I’m adult, and I’m even attracted to female people, but whatever this “being a man” thing is, I’m not about it, and it is not about me. It’s been loudly (if not always coherently) defined by people who often insisted on the goodness of traits I don’t much value and the dismissable triviality or outright badness of traits I do. Aside from which, of course, they were often openly asserting that I’m not one. Fine with me. Yeah, sure, I could content against them for the right to define the word differently, but what the heck, most of Them, the ones doing that defining-thing, have been male, it’s always been like that, and so very few of my strongest “this is who I am” senses of identity are all wound up in being male and what it means and what it’s supposed to mean and so forth. Being male is a fact, sometimes convenient, often inconvenient, and quite often very misleading as an indicator of who I am. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/58 "2004-04-10T06:41:31Z")
My daddy told me, Lyin’ on his bed of death, “Son,” he said, “a woman’s goin’ to make it, Don’t fool yourself. She’s got somethin’ that makes a man, Lay that money right in her hand. The very thing that makes her rich, will make you poor.” ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/59 "2004-04-10T06:53:04Z")
Sorry, I didn’t attribute the quote. S. Bailey wrote the song _The Very Thing That Makes You Rich,_ that Ry Cooder recorded on _Bop 'Til You Drop._ Mr. Bailey, a cab driver, sang the song for Cooder, and at the time of the release, Cooder had not found Bailey to pay royalties. I don’t know how it turned out. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2004, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063/60 "2004-04-10T07:35:41Z")
did i wander into the pit?.. 😕 > [@Otto](#): > > What the fuck is with the definitions of manhood that exclude gay men? where did that come from? i was stating a common milestone definition of a man - that of a father; likewise for women. i’m not sure why that is offensive? (yet it surely is, given the reaction… ) as i’m not familiar/involved with gay topics i did not have them in mind in my previous post. it is just a simple (if _animal_) statement, that everyone should have offspring to have a fuller life. (of sorts) are you implying that gay men object to the idea of siring children, whatever the methods? regards **Otto** ’s, **Mockingbird** ’s, **ageless6** ’s and **fetus** ’s posts. … you are all flinging wild accusations and baseless insults at me. please save your knee jerk reactions for the anti-gays or whatever you call them. i’m _really_ trying to keep my cool here, based on the thought that there _must_ be a reason for the vitriol, but mostly because i’m just too shocked by the responses to give a proper reply. i see insults, condescension and hypocrisy hurled at me, my character attacked, my children’s orientation ‘wished’ upon, my viewpoints hijacked and statements i did not make stuffed down my throat. and the response? some jokes and a moderator that saw **j\_kat\_251** ’s name calling as the only flaming worth paying attention to. all i said was “a man will sire children and protect them. a woman will birth children and care for them.” i genuinely do not see how that is hateful. what with the push for same sex marriage and all i would think that gay men _valued_ the idea of having family, of having children. note to self: does this qualify as a pile-on? no one has even bothered to quote my name as yet. offended, _offended_ i am! note to lesbians: _apparently_ none of you have weighed in on this yet. is my original post somehow offensive to men only? * * * Mr 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-man/239063.md?page=4)