# What makes a movie a Christmas movie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [December 24, 2020, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824 "2020-12-24T15:22:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/21 "2020-12-24T21:32:26Z")
Granted some of these are small and easy to miss, but this indicates there are 50 references to Christmas in Die Hard > **[50 Categorical Examples That Ultimately Prove 'Die Hard' is a Christmas Movie...](https://nofilmschool.com/Die-Hard-Christmas-Examples)** > > Let’s take a look at 50 cataloged examples that UNEQUIVOCALLY prove that Die Hard is a Christmas movie! ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2020, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/22 "2020-12-24T22:00:00Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Once again there is a 300+ comment (400+ comment thread now) thread on this where all these arguments have been dealt with and nauseum. McClain is in LA to reconcile with his wife because it’s Christmas. He goes to attend a Christmas Party. The villians choose Christmas Eve because of lower security while having people in the building (said Christmas Party). There are Christmas songs. “I have a machine gun Ho Ho Ho”. The gun in the final scene is attached to McClain’s back with Christmas wrapping tape. The Christmas references serve only as a McGuffin in this film. You could take it out and substitute it with any other holiday or any other aesthetic, and the film would still work without changing anything. That’s what makes it a film-set-around-Christmas and not a Christmas film. That’s my standard; you can take it or leave it. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2020, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/23 "2020-12-24T22:05:42Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > A fair description of the movie, which makes no mention of Christmas. So, Gremlins is a movie set at Christmastime but _not_ a Christmas movie. If you don’t think Gremlins is a Christmas movie, watch it again and ask yourself how the movie would still work if all the Christmas stuff were removed. You’d miss Gizmo being presented as a Christmas present. You’d miss all the shots of Gremlins dressed like Santa, cavorting around toys. You’d miss the Gremlins spoofing a Christmas carol. But most of all you’d miss Kate’s morbid story about how she hates Christmas because her dad had a tragic Christmas-related accident on Christmas. It’s pretty clearly meant to be a mild-horror take on Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2020, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/24 "2020-12-24T22:38:51Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > That’s my standard; you can take it or leave it. I’ll leave it. I think the Christmas setting is essential to Die Hard to make it work. More so than It’s a Wonderful Life for instance (which interestingly the director of Die Hard recently said was an inspiration for how he directed Die Hard). ---
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2020, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/25 "2020-12-24T22:55:15Z")
To me a Halloween movie is a scary movie. It doesn’t have to take place at Halloween. A Valentines movie is a sappy love story. It doesn’t have to take place on Valentines Day. A movie about the St. Valentines massacre is not a Valentines movie. A Christmas movie is one that gets me in the spirit of Christmas. To me Die Hard doesn’t. If it does to someone else, then it is a Christmas movie for them. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2020, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/26 "2020-12-24T22:56:34Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I’ll leave it. I think the Christmas setting is essential to Die Hard to make it work. More so than It’s a Wonderful Life for instance (which interestingly the director of Die Hard recently said was an inspiration for how he directed Die Hard). You are wrong. You are deeply and incorrigibly wrong and I pity you and your progeny. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2020, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/27 "2020-12-24T22:57:31Z")
Guys, obviously we won’t get agreement about Die Hard. We could get further looking at other movies and what does or does not make them Christmas movies. I am perfectly willing to accept that no matter what definition of a Christmas movie anyone has that it does not have to apply to Die Hard. And Merry Christmas guys, which I mean in secular manner giving good wishes to one and all except for some well known exceptions and some guy you don’t know but trust me you wouldn’t wish him well either. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/28 "2020-12-25T00:49:21Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I guess you could draw a line between movies that use Christmas as a setting and those that are _about_ Christmas. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If you don’t think Gremlins is a Christmas movie, watch it again and ask yourself how the movie would still work if all the Christmas stuff were removed. I’d put it on the “movies that use Christmas as a setting” side of Elmer\_J.Fudd’s line. It wouldn’t still work (at least, not the same way) if the setting were changed. But a movie’s setting is not (typically) what the movie is about. For what it’s worth, both Gremlins and Die Hard were originally released in the summer. Which could be taken as evidence that they weren’t intended as Christmas movies. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/29 "2020-12-25T04:06:28Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > For what it’s worth, both Gremlins and Die Hard were originally released in the summer. Which could be taken as evidence that they weren’t intended as Christmas movies Fair enough. Though It’s a Wonderful Life was released on January 7 (after the 12th day of Christmas even) and The Bishop’s Wife was released in February and most people have little issue with those Christmas films. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/30 "2020-12-25T04:30:54Z")
One possible answer is that there are no Christmas movies. But then something like “How the Grinch Stole Christmas” almost certainly is, because the story makes much less sense reframed around some other similar occurrence, and would certainly have much less emotional impact if it were. Therefore, I would say that if it’s possible to rework the story in a way such that Christmas is not relevant and maintain the same sort of emotion impact, it’s not really a Christmas movie. I haven’t actually seen Die Hard (at least, I don’t remember ever seeing it, and that’s what matters), so I can’t weigh in on that specific case. Here’s a list of certain Christmas movies to me though: A Christmas Story I’ll be Home for Christmas National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation Miracle on 34th St. The Grinch Wikipedia lists Home Alone as the second highest grossing Christmas movie, but I don’t see it as one. There is very little of the overall plot arc that requires it to be anchored to Christmas; certainly there is a little something missing by removing the Christmas element, but it’s pretty minor and not particularly relevant to the story as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/31 "2020-12-25T15:23:14Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > - No violent deaths portrayed on screen. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Does the cat being electrocuted exclude Christmas Vacation? > [@RealityChuck](#): > > Hadn’t seen that. I should have specified deaths of humans You are aware that there are [Christmas horror movies](https://www.imdb.com/search/keyword/?keywords=killer-santa-claus), yes? ---
**Author:** ![Die\_Capacitrix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/die_capacitrix/32/9_2.png) [@Die\_Capacitrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Die_Capacitrix)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/32 "2020-12-25T16:59:14Z")
BBC has updated an article from 2018 in which the conclusion is that Die Hard is actually quite similar to A Christmas Carol. > Likewise John McClane and Holly mend their relationship in Die Hard and the fractious family in Home Alone are reunited and reconciled. > > Kermode adds: “For me, the essence of a great Christmas film – the most important secret of this genre of cinema – is the possibility of healing.” Of course there are many movies which include “the possibility of healing” that are not set at Christmastime. For me, a film that many people like to watch at Christmas can become a Christmas film, even if it doesn’t include any references to Christmas. > **[BBC Arts - BBC Arts - Festive flicks: Mark Kermode reveals the secrets of...](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3CN7Gn4V2drCmwfcLRDBzq5/festive-flicks-mark-kermode-reveals-the-secrets-of-christmas-movies)** > > What are the ingredients that turn a movie into festive gold? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/33 "2020-12-25T17:56:44Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > > [@RealityChuck](#): > > > > - No violent deaths portrayed on screen. > > > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > > > Does the cat being electrocuted exclude Christmas Vacation? > > > [@RealityChuck](#): > > > > Hadn’t seen that. I should have specified deaths of humans > > You are aware that there are [Christmas horror movies](https://www.imdb.com/search/keyword/?keywords=killer-santa-claus), yes? I am aware. They are horror movies set at Christmas. They are not Christmas movies. A Christmas movie, after all, is _about_ Christmas, not set at Christmas. There is a major difference. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/34 "2020-12-25T18:32:03Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The movie couldn’t be set any other time. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > It could have as easily been set in Easter or Halloween without materially changing anything but the backdrop. I think these points are the key. It doesn’t necessarily have to be religious in tone, because Christmas is certainly a secular holiday. But if you can’t imagine the movie without the Christmas element, then it’s not a Christmas movie. Christmas is just the backdrop (and that includes the song track; just having carols in the soundtrack doesn’t make it a Christmas movie if they’re not integral to the plot; they’re just the auditory backdrop). ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/35 "2020-12-25T18:38:42Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > A Christmas movie, after all, is _about_ Christmas, not set at Christmas. There is a major difference. So about the birth of Christ? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/36 "2020-12-25T18:44:51Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > But if you can’t imagine the movie without the Christmas element, then it’s not a Christmas movie. Christmas is just the backdrop (and that includes the song track; just having carols in the soundtrack doesn’t make it a Christmas movie if they’re not integral to the plot; they’re just the auditory backdrop). I will note that It’s a Wonderful Life has been airing at Christmas Eve for decades and it’s only been deemed not a Christmas movie recently in order to gatekeep to keep Die Hard out. Because It’s a Wonderful Life can definitely be set at any time and doesn’t need the Christmas element at the end (and it was released on Jan 7, after all). I would say that argues in favor of Die Hard on that some people had to redefine It’s a Wonderful Life out of “Christmas movie” because Die Hard had more Christmas elements :). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/37 "2020-12-25T19:00:58Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > > [@RealityChuck](#): > > > > A Christmas movie, after all, is _about_ Christmas, not set at Christmas. There is a major difference. > > So about the birth of Christ? No, about the holiday. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/38 "2020-12-25T19:03:17Z")
It seems in the US, there is some acknowledgment they are somewhat separate - see the trend to wish folks Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. I guess we can call some movies Santa-days, but that’s just a naked commercialization of the real holiday 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/39 "2020-12-25T19:21:12Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > > > > [@RealityChuck](#): > > > > > > A Christmas movie, after all, is _about_ Christmas, not set at Christmas. There is a major difference. > > > > So about the birth of Christ? > > No, about the holiday. Though, in seriousness, isn’t that part of what this whole thread about? What is about Christmas mean? Is it presents (All Santa movies are basically about securing presents)? Is it family and friends (Thanksgiving is also about that of course)? Is it about love and forgiveness? Is it about the birth of the Savior of Creation? Is it about the tree and decorations? Is it about the music? In essence trying to gatekeep what is or is not a Christmas movie just isn’t going to end up with a consensus. Some people watch Christmas horror movies. Some people watch winter feel good movies. Some people watch Santa movies (such as my wife to my chagrin). Some people watch mild satire of the holiday time. Some people watch Christmas action films. All of these are Christmas movies. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824/40 "2020-12-25T19:46:21Z")
[quote=“ISiddiqui, post:39, topic:928824”] > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > > > > > [@RealityChuck](#): > > > > > > > > > A Christmas movie, after all, is _about_ Christmas, not set at Christmas. There is a major difference. > > > > > [/quote] > > > > > > > > > > So about the birth of Christ? > > > > > > No, about the holiday. > > Though, in seriousness, isn’t that part of what this whole thread about? What is about Christmas mean? Is it presents (All Santa movies are basically about securing presents)? Is it family and friends (Thanksgiving is also about that of course)? Is it about love and forgiveness? Is it about the birth of the Savior of Creation? Is it about the tree and decorations? Is it about the music? No, when we talk about the distinction between a movie set at Christmas and a movie about Christmas, the issue isn’t the meaning of “Christmas”—it’s the meaning of “about.” A movie can be set during the summertime, in such a way that it wouldn’t work the same way at any other time of year, but that doesn’t make it a movie about summer. A movie could take place on a Saturday, but that doesn’t make it about Saturday. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-a-movie-a-christmas-movie/928824.md?page=3)