# What Makes An Italian Sub Authentic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 4, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682 "2019-09-04T14:09:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/21 "2019-09-04T18:33:22Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > you had it correct, the name is just attached to the style of sandwich, there’s no sandwich I’m aware of called a “subway.” it’s just a play on words, they sell sub sandwiches and most people are familiar with the word “subway” in the rail sense. That’s kind of you but I think the way you explain it means I’m wrong. I thought that a Sandwich shop called “Subway” sold that style of sandwiche that came to be known as “subs” for short. Whereas it seems to be the case that the style of sandwich called a “sub” predates Subway and their name was a play on that. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/22 "2019-09-04T18:34:27Z")
Is the provolone smoked or unsmoked? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/23 "2019-09-04T18:35:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > “Subway” is a pun, indicating a shop that specializes in selling subs. I take it you don’t dine there often, since [they do refer to their sandwiches as subs in the UK.](https://www.subway.com/en-GB) I eat there quite a lot but as I say above, I thought that “sub” was their equivalent of MacDonalds sticking “Mac” in front of anything and everything. ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/24 "2019-09-04T18:47:09Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > I wondered where the idea of putting vinaigrette on a sub came from. I don’t recall ever seeing it before 2000. I grew up in southern Maine and it was definitely a thing as far back as mid 80’s. In answer to the OP, I expect that an “authentic” sub is what you had as a kid. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/25 "2019-09-04T19:08:12Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > At the risk of sounding like Maggie Smith, what is a sub? I rather suspect it’s not something many Italians would be familiar with. > > Or should one read the OP’s question as “What makes an Italian sub-authentic”? Which would bring into play all the stereotypes about parking, gesticulating and mamma-fixation. Annnnnnd, just because you said that, that’s exactly how you sound (in my head). Not that there’s \*anything \*wrong with that.😉 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/26 "2019-09-04T19:25:47Z")
> [@Paintcharge](#): > > I grew up in southern Maine and it was definitely a thing as far back as mid 80’s. We had it in Minneapolis when I was in high school (1970–73). ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/27 "2019-09-04T19:27:12Z")
According to an old joke about the Italian Navy, the answer to the question in the thread title is: they have glass bottoms. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/28 "2019-09-04T19:30:18Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > According to an old joke about the Italian Navy, the answer to the question in the thread title is: they have glass bottoms. Yes, but that’s the \*new \*Italian navy. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/29 "2019-09-04T19:48:50Z")
The screen doors. BaDUMP-tsshhhh. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/30 "2019-09-04T19:53:08Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The screen doors. > > BaDUMP-tsshhhh. I thought that was in the Polish navy? :dubious: 😕 How do you sink an Italian sub? Knock on the hatch. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/31 "2019-09-04T19:55:09Z")
Ouch. Looks like I was ninja’d with my approach. Twice. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/32 "2019-09-04T20:01:55Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Ouch. Looks like I was ninja’d with my approach. > > Twice. I got a million of 'em! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/33 "2019-09-04T20:02:10Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The sandwiches they have on the streets in Italy aren’t submarine style sandwiches, but more of a panini type thing. The ones I saw were generally cheese and cured meats, and without the typical American style lettuce, tomato and onions. > > So it’s kind of like most Italian-American foods- there’s what they eat over there, and what the Italians who immigrated made with local ingredients. Neither is more or less authentic when you think about it - Italians made both, just in different places where things varied in availability and cost. Same for Mexicans in the SW US versus the interior of Mexico. Nobody’s going to claim that fajitas aren’t actually Mexican, just because Mexicans in Texas were the originator of that dish. Similarly, an “authentic” Italian sandwich probably depends on where it was originally made- is a muffaletta any less authentic than a grinder, hoagie, hero or sub? I would claim that fajitas are not Mexican food. (They are usually encountered in a Tex-Mex restaurant, not Azteca.) Nor is a New York-style pizza an Italian pizza. Not that it is impossible to serve authentic cuisine in a foreign country, but if most Italians cannot recognize your panino then it is stretching things to call it an “Italian sandwich”. I am all for creativity in food, however. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/34 "2019-09-04T20:05:22Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I got a million of 'em! 🆒 What’s it called when the Russian navy sends out two submarines? A “surge.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/35 "2019-09-04T20:05:35Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Ouch. Looks like I was ninja’d with my approach. > > Twice. > [@terentii](#): > > I got a million of 'em! 🆒 As I believe I’ve noted before, there are few better posters to be ninja’d by (if you gotta be ninja’d). ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/36 "2019-09-04T20:08:32Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > As I believe I’ve noted before, there are few better posters to be ninja’d by (if you gotta be ninja’d). To quote Johnny Carson, “I’m flattered to death!” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/37 "2019-09-04T20:11:24Z")
An authentic Italian sub must be built in the shipyards of Castellammare di Stabia and set new aesthetic trends while still respecting classical elegance. But seriously. It would seem the [spuckie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spuccadella) is a submarine, but not analogous to subs hoagies and griders because it is specifically the Italian Sandwich. A sub-sub, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/38 "2019-09-04T20:22:44Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The sandwiches they have on the streets in Italy aren’t submarine style sandwiches, but more of a panini type thing. The ones I saw were generally cheese and cured meats, and without the typical American style lettuce, tomato and onions. In Parma a few months back, I had a “sub”, made on an Italian baguette with Parma ham, shaved Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese, field greens and tomato, drizzled with balsamic vinegar and olive oil. Incredibly simple, perfectly excecuted. It was not too much different from something you could get in any city USA, only the bread was much smaller in diameter than at a place like Subway, and as you might imagine, the ingredients were all obviously fresh and of exceedingly high quality, even though this place was far from upscale. Sadly, it was probably the best (and cheapest) meal we had the entire time we were in Parma, which in my experience has the least impressive (and most expensive) food of any city I have ever visited in Italy. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/39 "2019-09-04T20:25:35Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I would claim that fajitas are not Mexican food. (They are usually encountered in a Tex-Mex restaurant, not Azteca.) Nor is a New York-style pizza an Italian pizza. Not that it is impossible to serve authentic cuisine in a foreign country, but if most Italians cannot recognize your panino then it is stretching things to call it an “Italian sandwich”. I am all for creativity in food, however. That’s silly. So if some guy from Italy immigrates to the US, and devises a new Italianate sort of food using slightly different ingredients, it ceases to be Italian? And by the same token, if I emigrate to Italy and devise a new sort of hamburger using Italian ingredients, it’s suddenly Italian? Fajitas were originally devised by South Texas ranch hands, who were given the less desirable cuts of the cow- including the skirt steak, and who grilled it up and ate it on tacos, long before it became popular in the late 1970s/early 1980s in restaurants. I’m failing to see how some guy named Giuseppe who came from Italy and makes pizza in NYC using local ingredients isn’t making Italian food. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/40 "2019-09-04T20:48:34Z")
I would call it a “Neopolitan-American pizza” if it’s not the traditional food. (It’s not a _geographical_ thing, but there are actual guidelines for the ingredients or techniques you may use, otherwise the “specialità tradizionale garantita” people start getting on your ass.) Anyway, it’s not a bright line. I’m just suggesting that it may be possible to push things far enough so that any Italian will say, “That was good, but it was not an Italian sandwich/pizza.” Anecdotally, I have heard with my own ears an Italian apologize that she couldn’t make a bruschetta quite right because she couldn’t find the proper flour outside Italy… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682.md?page=3)