# What Makes An Italian Sub Authentic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 4, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682 "2019-09-04T14:09:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/101 "2019-09-06T16:18:26Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > It’s not exactly another word for foreign - it’s often actually used to contrast the “authentic” food with the “modified by/for Americans” version. For example, if I get food from the nearby Chinese takeout, it’s prepared differently than when my Chinese husband goes to get it - and even what he gets there is different from what’s served in Chinese restaurants in a Chinese neighborhood (although that’s more a matter of different items on the menu rather than different preparation). If you go to a certain type of Italian-American restaurant in the Northeastern US, you would think that Italians don’t eat vegetables except in salads , serve pasta as a side dish and have either red sauce and/or cheese on every protein. nevermind that “Italian” cuisine isn’t just one thing, there’s a lot of regional varations. A former co-worker of mine was from Genova, and apart from pasta a lot of what he was familiar with would be unrecognizable as Italian dishes to most Americans. ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/102 "2019-09-06T19:17:49Z")
> [@Trancephalic](#): > > Anyone willing to part with a donor kebab? I certainly wouldn’t reject one. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/103 "2019-09-06T19:58:59Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Philly’s Best is the place in Chicago where I first encountered a “grinder” and it has always been baked so that is how I assumed it should be. Haven’t had one in a while…_salivating_… Try Monti’s…_salivating_… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/104 "2019-09-06T20:14:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Tibby** : > > What are you going to do with all those leftover rolls? Eating Italian hoagies every day wouldn’t be very healthy. So, here’s what you do: eat Italian hoagies every other day. Eat Philly cheesesteaks on the alternate days! By some wonderful coincidental quirk of the universe, Amoroso rolls also make the best cheesesteak rolls. Indeed. You can use any grade of meat whatsoever for a cheesesteak, and top it with any at least vaguely cheese-ish substance. But the roll, that you absolutely have to get right. ---
**Author:** ![REssence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e36b37/32.png) [@REssence](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/REssence)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/105 "2019-09-07T08:02:16Z")
Corned beef and cabbage (yum) is a purely Irish-American thing. Lived in Ireland for a long time, saw it once, in a tourist hotel with a greatly American clientele. It’s bacon and cabbage in Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/106 "2019-09-07T23:25:56Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > because snobbery. It’s not snobbery; I want to know what I’m getting when I go into a restaurant. I know what I’m getting from Taco Bell, which I like, despite it not being Mexican food. I have to take my mother to a “Mexican” restaurant for her birthday; it’s pretty tasty, but if I went there (“El Charro” in your neck of the woods) expecting Mexican food, I’d be disappointed as fuck. Their queso fundido is nacho cheese, for fuck’s sake! ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/107 "2019-09-07T23:39:54Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > nevermind that “Italian” cuisine isn’t just one thing, there’s a lot of regional varations. A former co-worker of mine was from Genova, and apart from pasta a lot of what he was familiar with would be unrecognizable as Italian dishes to most Americans. Yeah, NOT snobbery. I love Italian-American food and cook it a lot…my kids love my “Sunday Gravy” — but I’ve visited Italy many times and can tell the difference between Genoese, Sicilian, Tuscan, Pugliese, Apulian, and Emilia-Romagna cooking. And it ain’t schpagootz wit’ meatballs. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/108 "2019-09-07T23:41:19Z")
> [@REssence](#): > > Corned beef and cabbage (yum) is a purely Irish-American thing. Lived in Ireland for a long time, saw it once, in a tourist hotel with a greatly American clientele. It’s bacon and cabbage in Ireland. My understanding is that the swap came about because Irish immigrants to the U.S. discovered that the type of bacon usually used for the dish in Ireland (back bacon) wasn’t easily available (or inexpensive) in the U.S., and they substituted a meat that was (corned beef brisket). ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/109 "2019-09-07T23:50:09Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > My understanding is that the swap came about because Irish immigrants to the U.S. discovered that the type of bacon usually used for the dish in Ireland (back bacon) wasn’t easily available (or inexpensive) in the U.S., and they substituted a meat that was (corned beef brisket). Yeah…the Irish moved into neighborhoods in NYC where the butchers were Jewish, so they needed to switch from pig to cow. Also, Irish bacon is cured from the pork shoulder, which is fatty, but much leaner than pork belly, the source of regular American bacon. So the bacon you get in Eire (and England) has more meat to it. Canadian bacon (aka “back bacon”) is cured from the loin, which is quite lean, so comes out more like ham than bacon. Everyone can pile on me now, because I know this is a contentious issue. ---
**Author:** ![Robert\_Richard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Robert\_Richard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert_Richard)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/110 "2019-09-08T06:23:38Z")
Ham , salami, and provolone with lettuce tomato onion oil and vinegar is the classic with the addition of cappacola and pepperoni being the next level up. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/111 "2019-09-08T08:27:38Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > My understanding is that the swap came about because Irish immigrants to the U.S. discovered that the type of bacon usually used for the dish in Ireland (back bacon) wasn’t easily available (or inexpensive) in the U.S., and they substituted a meat that was (corned beef brisket). More proof that the best food is often the result of the fusion of disparate cultures. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/112 "2019-09-08T08:35:49Z")
Now I feel like an Italian bánh mì. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/113 "2019-09-08T09:05:51Z")
Sounds pretty good, actually. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/114 "2019-09-08T14:39:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Sounds pretty good, actually. There’s a barbecue place not too terribly far from me in Northwest Indiana that pulls off quite a nice smoked brisket banh mi (as an occasional special): smoked brisket, bbq and hoisin sauce, sriracha mayo, jalapeño, cilantro, and pickled carrot and daikon on a Vietnamese baguette. I wouldn’t be surprised if somewhere out there, there is a bahn mi being served with Italian deli meats. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/115 "2019-09-08T15:00:17Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > There’s a barbecue place not too terribly far from me in Northwest Indiana that pulls off quite a nice smoked brisket banh mi (as an occasional special): smoked brisket, bbq and hoisin sauce, sriracha mayo, jalapeño, cilantro, and pickled carrot and daikon on a Vietnamese baguette. > > I wouldn’t be surprised if somewhere out there, there is a bahn mi being served with Italian deli meats. What/where is it? I’ve got a kid living in Valpo and would love to give that a try. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/116 "2019-09-08T15:18:39Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > What/where is it? I’ve got a kid living in Valpo and would love to give that a try. It’s [Bombers BBQ](http://bombersbbq.com/) in Munster, IN. The bahn mi is a very intermittent special. They had it for two days a few weeks ago [here it is on their Facebook page](https://www.facebook.com/bombersbbq/photos/rpp.553424048008966/3172100069474671/?type=3&theater), but I don’t know when they’ve had it before that. That said, Bombers is worth a stop for any of their barbecue. I especially like their brisket and burnt ends (I’m usually a pork barbecue kinda guy, but their beef barbecue is particularly exceptional, and I like it better than any beef barbecue I’ve had here in Chicago, although Smoque’s brisket is neck-and-neck with Bombers, but I give the slight edge to Bombers.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/117 "2019-09-08T15:46:17Z")
“Authenticity” is usually a painful word in cooking, but Italians don’t always like changes to traditional foods. I’m no expert on Italian food. I agree with the descriptions of cappicola and provolone on panini. But I’ve had a crusty bun with meatballs, peppers, onions and tomato sauce described as an Italian sub too, at an Italian place which specializes in groceries from Italy. I’ve also had an amazing sandwich in Chicago with beef, peppers, giardinera (pickled vegetables) dipped in hot beef stock. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/118 "2019-09-08T23:57:30Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I’ve also had an amazing sandwich in Chicago with beef, peppers, giardinera (pickled vegetables) dipped in hot beef stock. An “Italian beef!” It wasn’t until I went to college and met people from other parts of the US that I realized that Italian beef wasn’t a universal food, but rather a Chicago-area specialty (though you’ll find versions dotted here and there elsewhere in the US, but always at a “Chicago-style” type eatery.) And even the Chicago version of giardiniera is a bit different than your traditional Italian giardiniera. Ours is pickled, too, but packed in oil, and usually has a spicy component to it. (And sometimes has olives and/or capers in it, which I don’t think you’ll usually find in Italian giardiniera.) If you want to be extra gluttonous, you order a “combo” – an Italian beef with an Italian sausage (a fresh, uncured fennel-flecked sausage here in much of the US) nestled in it. Italian beeves are delicious and about 95% of the reason I bought a proper, used commercial (deli) meat slicer. I mean, yes, I still go to my favorite places to grab a sandwich when I can, but, sometimes, I feel like having three pounds of Italian beef to myself to eat over the course of a week or so, whenever I want to. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682/119 "2019-09-09T01:03:06Z")
In St. Louis, it’s [whether you leave the stems on the pepperoncinis, or cut them off!](https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/suit-says-new-deli-on-the-hill-can-t-use/article_429c692d-547e-5127-9711-5ee2a1e7ebd6.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-an-italian-sub-authentic/839682.md?page=5)