# What makes bread-and-butter economic issues relatively unappealing for Democrats? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 23, 2025, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409 "2025-04-23T16:40:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/92 "2025-04-25T16:49:58Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > In my opinion, it’s hard for any political figure to talk to anyone about money, on any side. People are very ignorant about finances, from personal finance to taxes to macro economics. Hell, the politicians themselves surely have some massive ignorance on all that. > > It’s easier to just focus on asking people to be NICE, as it’s free. Like, hey, you like your neighbors, who happen to be in a marginalized group. Why not just let them live? I think it’s the exact opposite. There’s the “what’s in it for me?” factor. If someone hates gays, lesbians, Muslims, Jews, black people or Hispanics, what does he get out of being nice to them? Nothing. There’s no particular reason - to _him_ - why he should be nice, no matter how progressives may tell him he ought to. On the other hand, if progressives make a strong convincing argument, “Hey, if you vote for us and get us elected, our policies may very well end up saving you $4,000 per year directly and indirectly - or boost your wages by a similar figure,” that gives the hater a real “what’s in it for me” incentive. Progressives need to run elections with the assumption that selfishness (or even honest respectable desire for gain) is one of the strongest natural human motivators, and appeal to it accordingly instead of appealing to altruism, which is mighty difficult. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2025, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/93 "2025-04-27T18:53:58Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > As someone who was alive at the time and voting, a big part of it was disappointment in the democrats for not doing more. The issue wasn’t that democrats decided to vote republican, its that republicans decided to show up to vote and democrats didn’t. > > In 2008 for house elections, 65 million democrats showed up to vote for democratic representatives vs 52 million republican voters. > > In 2010, 45 million republicans voted for GOP representatives vs 39 million democrats. [2010 had typical turnout for a midterm election year.](https://www.electproject.org/national-1789-present) Electorally the thing that really hurt the Dems was that they went through this very messy legislative process on Obamacare but they had the provisions kick in after 2010 (and for most of the big ones, after 2012), meanwhile the economy still sucked and healthcare still sucked by the time the 2010 elections came along. There was no tangible benefit that voters could see from the legislation, plus they didn’t have to be wrong about any negative thing they thought would happen. Not to mention if the economy sucks people are going to be more pessimistic in general. The other thing was that in 2006 and 2008 the Republicans were so unpopular that actual Republicans voted Democrat. Once Bush was in the rearview those voters went back to voting Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2025, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/94 "2025-04-27T19:33:28Z")
Its possible. Looking at 2004, 56 million GOPers showed up to vote for house elections vs 53 million democrats. In 2006, it was 36 million GOPers and 42 million democrats. 2008, GOP 52 million, dems 65 million 2010, 2008, GOP 45 million, dems 39 million 2012, 2008, GOP 58 million, dems 59 million So in 2004, 58 million people voted GOP in the house, vs 52 million in 2008 and back to 58 million in 2012. There was a spike in people voting dem in 2008 vs in 2004 and 2012. So yeah there likely were cross over voters who went back to the GOP in 2010. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2025, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/95 "2025-04-27T21:21:20Z")
Right. 2010 was a rout of “moderate Dems” in seats that had relatively recently been “swing”. And to make it worse in the long term by 2010 many “moderate GOP” contenders in those states/districts had been displaced in primaries by Tea Partiers. (Remember them? MAGAs almost make them look like statesmen. Almost.). (Also the 2010 and 2014 elections led to the observation that any coat-tail effect Obama might have, existed only when HE was on the ballot. Which is unfair since as we’ve seen, people tend to just pass on the Midterms no matter who’s up.) ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2025, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/96 "2025-04-27T22:27:00Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > You missed a very important point. The average voter has no clue how economics works. Sadly true. Even the average politician seems to have a pretty shaky grasp. And even economists don’t know how to avoid recessions and/or stagnation to get a successful and growing economy. > [@Velocity](#): > > Progressives need to run elections with the assumption that selfishness (or even honest respectable desire for gain) is one of the strongest natural human motivators, and appeal to it accordingly instead of appealing to altruism, which is mighty difficult. Agreed. If you want people to vote for you, you need to tell them how you’re going to make _their_ lives better. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2025, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/97 "2025-04-27T22:58:11Z")
No, wrong, as the rise of MAGA proves. You need to tell then how their enemies will suffer. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2025, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/98 "2025-04-27T23:13:57Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Looking at 2004, 56 million GOPers showed up to vote for house elections vs 53 million democrats. This is a mite misleading. Many of those “GOPers” or “dems” are/were actually independents that just voted that way. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/99 "2025-04-28T17:11:41Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > No, wrong, as the rise of MAGA proves. > > You need to tell then how their enemies will suffer. People don’t want to accept this but its true. in the 1970s, about 81% of Americans identified as white christians. The other 19% of Americans were either white non-christians, or POC. In 2025, its closer to 40% of Americans who are white christians. About 1/3 of whites aren’t christian, and about 40% of America is POC. Among Gen Z, only 27% identify as white christians. White christians are full of rage that they aren’t the default american anymore, and they want revenge on out-groups, and they want to reestablish themselves at the default Americans. White christians are now a minority group, but because of their higher voter turnout, they still have meaningful power in politics. Also white christians are terrified that now that they are the mirnority, they will be treated the same way they treat minorities. They’re scared they’ll be treated the way they treat feminists, gays, POC, immigrants, etc. When you understand that, modern politics makes more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/100 "2025-04-28T17:29:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > When it comes to issues like social justice, abortion, feminism, race, affirmative action, deportations, LGBT, opposing-Trump, etc., the Democratic Party shows plenty of energy and zest in fighting. > > When it comes to things like inflation, a higher minimum wage, healthcare reform, income inequality, higher housing…the Ds seem a lot more lackluster and don’t push as much. The Democratic party started as the party of the common, blue collar worker and is meant to be the one that’s championing unions, socialist projects, etc. The leadership of the party, however, is comprised of largely affluent dweebs and hippies living off inherited money. They don’t understand and probably wouldn’t like most of the people who have voted Democratic for the last 50 years. Getting to know and understand the average Democrat, and fight for them, would require forming a connection to them. The ability to be the Great White Savior quickly falls apart when you go to meet the people you’re saving and find that, 1) they’re largely white, and 2) more closely aligned to MAGA than to you. And, ergo, the average Democratic champion avoids ever doing just that thing and just hopes that if they throw enough money in that general direction that the issue will resolve itself. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/101 "2025-04-28T17:43:13Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Getting to know and understand the average Democrat, and fight for them, would require forming a connection to them. The ability to be the Great White Savior quickly falls apart when you go to meet the people you’re saving and find that, 1) they’re largely white, and 2) more closely aligned to MAGA than to you. First, if that was true then the Democrats would be incapable of winning a single election since the majority of their base would just vote Republican. And then kill the remainder. And second, if that’s true we might as well give up, since if most of the population are bigoted fascists there’s no way non-fascists will ever be in office again. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/102 "2025-04-28T17:45:29Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The Democratic party started as the party of the common, blue collar worker and is meant to be the one that’s championing unions, socialist projects, etc. Citation very much required. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/103 "2025-04-28T17:49:08Z")
Of course, _in actuality_ it started as the Southern White Racist party, which only changed when the Southern Democrats switched to being Republicans instead. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/104 "2025-04-28T17:55:19Z")
If you start with the assumption that helping the “common” man must be at odds with helping POC, etc then you’ll always arrive back at MAGA. Whenever you see "blue collar " or “common” or "real Americans " you need to preface it with White blue collar to understand who they want to fight for. An insightful conservative poster here once posted: > [@What could the Harris campaign have done differently?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/325): > > The Democrats have followed the strategy of championing oppressed minorities, focusing on ever tinier and more aberrant fringe groups, to the point of diminishing returns. First African-Americans, then women, then gays, and now various flavors of non-binaries. I’m not sure there’s anywhere left to go except for maybe incest practitioners. They see it as a zero sum game and by definition, minorities are NOT the “common man” they are of course the abberant “other” who must be controlled not helped. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/105 "2025-04-28T18:00:24Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > If you start with the assumption that helping the “common” man must be at odds with helping POC, etc then you’ll always arrive back at MAGA. Only because in the US phrases like “common man” or “working class” are almost always dog whistles for “white male Christian racists”. And of course helping white male Christian racists is by nature going to be at odds with helping anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/106 "2025-04-28T19:11:12Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > In 2025, its closer to 40% of Americans who are white christians. About 1/3 of whites aren’t christian, and about 40% of America is POC. > **[How U.S. religious composition has changed in recent decades](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/09/13/how-u-s-religious-composition-has-changed-in-recent-decades/)** > > Only a few decades ago, a Christian identity was so common among Americans that it could almost be taken for granted. As recently as the early 1990s, _But today, about two-thirds of adults are Christians.[6](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/09/13/how-u-s-religious-composition-has-changed-in-recent-decades/#fn-70301-6) The change in America’s religious composition is largely the result of large numbers of adults switching out of the religion in which they were raised to become religiously unaffiliated._ [https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045224](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045224) _White alone, percent.. 75.3_ % ; Black alone, percent (a)(a).. 13.7%\* > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Also white christians are terrified that now that they are the mirnority, they will be treated the same way they treat minorities. They’re scared they’ll be treated the way they treat feminists, gays, POC, immigrants, etc. That is a mighty wide brush you are tarring with. Only 25% or so of Americans are evangelicals, slightly less than half of all white protestants. Most American Christians arent bigots. I would guess that maybe less 25% of SDMBers are atheists or similars- so is it okay if I assume they all are? ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/107 "2025-04-28T19:39:25Z")
> **[White evangelicals continue to stand out in their support for Trump](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/04/28/white-evangelicals-continue-to-stand-out-in-their-support-for-trump/)** > > Most White evangelicals (72%) say they approve of how Trump is doing as president. Other religious groups are more divided or disapprove. > Most White evangelicals (72%) say they approve of how Trump is handling his job as president. White nonevangelical Protestants and White Catholics are much more divided, with 51% in each group approving of the job Trump is doing. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/108 "2025-04-28T21:30:29Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Getting to know and understand the average Democrat, and fight for them, would require forming a connection to them. The ability to be the Great White Savior quickly falls apart when you go to meet the people you’re saving and find that, 1) they’re largely white, and 2) more closely aligned to MAGA than to you. And, ergo, the average Democratic champion avoids ever doing just that thing and just hopes that if they throw enough money in that general direction that the issue will resolve itself. Exactly. > [@Zoobi](#): > > If you start with the assumption that helping the “common” man must be at odds with helping POC, etc then you’ll always arrive back at MAGA. Whenever you see "blue collar " or “common” or "real Americans " you need to preface it with White blue collar to understand who they want to fight for. This goes both ways. In most cases, bread and butter economic issues make more difference to POC and other minorities than measures specifically targeted at them like DEI, which only help a small number of people. Almost all the issues that affect blue collar whites also affect blue collar POCs, and both groups are more conservative than the college educated elite who largely control the Democratic party. That’s why MAGA was able to appeal to a large number of Hispanic and Asian voters, and Trump increased his vote share in these groups. Dems need to remember that they are more similar than different, and likely to become more so in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/109 "2025-04-28T21:56:11Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > > Getting to know and understand the average Democrat, and fight for them, would require forming a connection to them. The ability to be the Great White Savior quickly falls apart when you go to meet the people you’re saving and find that, 1) they’re largely white, and 2) more closely aligned to MAGA than to you. And, ergo, the average Democratic champion avoids ever doing just that thing and just hopes that if they throw enough money in that general direction that the issue will resolve itself. > > Exactly. > > > [@Zoobi](#): > > > > If you start with the assumption that helping the “common” man must be at odds with helping POC, etc then you’ll always arrive back at MAGA. Whenever you see "blue collar " or “common” or "real Americans " you need to preface it with White blue collar to understand who they want to fight for. > > This goes both ways. In most cases, bread and butter economic issues make more difference to POC and other minorities than measures specifically targeted at them like DEI, which only help a small number of people. Almost all the issues that affect blue collar whites also affect blue collar POCs, and both groups are more conservative than the college educated elite who largely control the Democratic party. That’s why MAGA was able to appeal to a large number of Hispanic and Asian voters, and Trump increased his vote share in these groups. Dems need to remember that they are more similar than different, and likely to become more so in the future. In your zeal to blame DEI for everything, you missed the point. You can’t sell bread and butter economic policies like the Democrats want because they don’t exclude non-whites. Republicans aren’t selling feasible bread and butter economic policies for a good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/110 "2025-04-28T22:01:30Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > This goes both ways. In most cases, bread and butter economic issues make more difference to POC and other minorities than measures specifically targeted at them like DEI, which only help a small number of people. As we’ve seen, “DEI” means “treating anyone but right wing white Christian males as citizens”. Doing anything other than ensuring that “POC and other minorities” _stay_ poor and powerless is “DEI”. Those non-white male people who voted for Trump and the Republicans were voting for their own persecution, whatever lies they told themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409/111 "2025-04-28T22:55:17Z")
I think this is a great point. Some rich kid who attended Oberlin or Berkeley and was surrounded by 80% liberal peers in college is going to have very, very little in common with an oil worker in North Dakota or a steel-mill worker in Pennsylvania. But the rich kid is likely to have much more influence within the Democratic Party, now and in the future. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-bread-and-butter-economic-issues-relatively-unappealing-for-democrats/1017409.md?page=6)