# What makes "Chinaman" an insulting term? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 12, 2009, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145 "2009-05-12T07:20:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/41 "2009-05-12T23:33:02Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > “Gay” used not to mean “homosexual” either. In time it could end up meaning “stupid, lame, foolish” and lose its other meaning entirely. The mere fact that one group of people chose to co-opt the word doesn’t mean that they now get to play prescriptivist with it. The wheel of idiom will continue to turn regardless. “Polite” people had to stop talking about “a gay old bachelor” years ago; now it gets to be someone else’s turn to stop using the word as they’d like. :rolleyes: Except the only reason it’s used as a pejorative is _because_ it now means homosexual. ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/42 "2009-05-12T23:45:39Z")
That’s gay. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/43 "2009-05-12T23:51:27Z")
I’m still kind of flummoxed about being castigated for referring to the SICBM as the MGM-134A ‘Midgetman’ in a briefing on the history of solid rocket motor development. “But that’s what they called it!” “I don’t care, come up with a better term for it.” “Urk?” You can always make fun of the Irish, though; they are the last ethnic group that can be openly derided without fear of repercussion and consignment to the correctness gulag. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/44 "2009-05-12T23:58:48Z")
Not to their faces though - or you’ll get your ass kicked. The Irish don’t take any shit! ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/45 "2009-05-13T00:00:48Z")
Especially when they’re drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Hadrian\_s\_Wall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hadrian\_s\_Wall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hadrian_s_Wall)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/46 "2009-05-13T00:07:08Z")
I don’t take offense to it, and I’m of Chinese descent. Usually, you just hear and shrug it off. And of of course later, you key the guys car or something that’s completely justified Or show him the power of the Eagle Death Claw or some other stereotypical martial arts move 🙂 Opps, I think I just made fun of myself ugh… ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/47 "2009-05-13T00:07:17Z")
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone make fun of the Irish or Irish-Americans. They seem to be pretty universally respected as a tough group of people who may be the underdog in history but are “scrappy” and good fighters. Being a good fighter or having a reputation as one generally is something that will always bring respect, even if there are other stereotypes like being drunk or being dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/48 "2009-05-13T00:30:49Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Not to their faces though - or you’ll get your ass kicked. The Irish don’t take any shit! Nay, the Irish donna take na shiite. > [@Scumpup](#): > > Especially when they’re drunk. Oy, **Scumpup** ya wanker, I’da bobble o’er there and kick yer fecking bake into yer hoop if only I coulda get offa this stool wi’out the room a’spinnin > [@Argent Towers](#): > > I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone make fun of the Irish or Irish-Americans. They seem to be pretty universally respected as a tough group of people who may be the underdog in history but are “scrappy” and good fighters. Being a good fighter or having a reputation as one generally is something that will always bring respect, even if there are other stereotypes like being drunk or being dumb. [I realized that growing up, I never heard my grandfather or my father say more than a passing word about the Ould Sod. They had talked about the abuse, the prejudice, Irish-Americans faced from WASP supremacy groups here in America. The NO IRISH NEED APPLY signs. The sneering question at the factory gate: “Protestant or Catholic?”](http://hnn.us/articles/4117.html) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/49 "2009-05-13T01:00:37Z")
One problem in the New Orleans area is that the vast majority of Asian people here are not Chinese. We have a large Vietnamese population. I often hear my kids refer to someone as “Chinese” and I always correct them and explain to them that they’ve probably never seen a real Chinese person in their life. I don’t think I’ve ever hear someone use the term “Chinaman” at all (except in movies and books). ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/50 "2009-05-13T01:12:56Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Nay, the Irish donna take na shiite. > > Oy, **Scumpup** ya wanker, I’da bobble o’er there and kick yer fecking bake into yer hoop if only I coulda get offa this stool wi’out the room a’spinnin > > [I realized that growing up, I never heard my grandfather or my father say more than a passing word about the Ould Sod. They had talked about the abuse, the prejudice, Irish-Americans faced from WASP supremacy groups here in America. The NO IRISH NEED APPLY signs. The sneering question at the factory gate: “Protestant or Catholic?”](http://hnn.us/articles/4117.html) > > Stranger Dobre den chelovik! We have all kinds of things in common! My own Ukranian people have a reputation for being too fond of vodka and piva. The ones who came here also talked about being the target of hatred and abuse from the established Protestant Americans, but typically had very little at all to say about Ukraine. Apparently, the Catholicism was even more odious than the not speaking English to the Ku Kluxing SOB’s who constituted the “ruling class” in PA mining towns. Luckily, they hated the Italians even more and vented more of their ire on them. We really must get together sometime and drunkenly bemoan the shitty lives our ancestors led. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/51 "2009-05-13T01:24:31Z")
Colin Powell: > [@](#): > > If you give 1.3 billion Chinamen access to home shopping on television, communism is over, because there is no way communism can compete with a salad shooter for $9.95 Now, that’s deep thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/52 "2009-05-13T01:38:30Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > [I realized that growing up, I never heard my grandfather or my father say more than a passing word about the Ould Sod. They had talked about the abuse, the prejudice, Irish-Americans faced from WASP supremacy groups here in America. The NO IRISH NEED APPLY signs. The sneering question at the factory gate: “Protestant or Catholic?”](http://hnn.us/articles/4117.html) > > Stranger Oh, I’m well aware of all the prejudice and hate that the Irish faced _in the past._ In fact I think I’ve probably written about it here; I learned a lot about it in history classes. The Irish used to be depicted as dark-skinned apes in early American cartoons, and they were universally despised. But _now,_ today, in America, at this moment in time, I have never heard any anti-Irish stuff from anyone. When most people think of the Irish in pop culture in America they think of drinking, fighting, Boondock Saints, drinking, The Departed, St. Patrick’s Day, fighting, the Fighting Irish, drinking, and drinking. Not the “ruin your life and lose all your money and die” kind of drinking, but the “this guy is a badass, he can out-drink everyone here” kind of drinking. (Obviously it’s just a cultural perception, not a fact.) I mean, _everybody_ wants to be Irish. On the more cultured side, Irish carries with it the connotation, of poetry, literature, and creativity in general. It’s “cool” to be Irish nowadays in America. People with even a tiny amount Irish ancestry instinctively respond “Irish!” whenever asked what “they are,” because Irish is something that’s viewed positively. At least that’s the impression I get. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/53 "2009-05-13T01:57:01Z")
I had once had a colleague from Northern Ireland. When we were introduced, I started to say "hey! My great grandfather . . . " upon which he rolled his eyes and said, “_Everyone_ in America has an Irish great grandparent.” ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/54 "2009-05-13T03:36:48Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Walter?! Everyone knows the ethnic types working on the railroads are called George. [Big Lebowski](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118715/quotes). Live it, love it. ---
**Author:** ![T.Slothrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@T.Slothrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.Slothrop)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/55 "2009-05-13T06:17:33Z")
I was told by my first wife that when she quizzed my mother about my ancestry that my mother told her that we were from all of the British Isles. When my first wife asked if we had any Irish in our ancestry, I am told that my mother answered: “_ **NO !** _.” I had never asked. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/56 "2009-05-13T08:12:36Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > :rolleyes: Except the only reason it’s used as a pejorative is _because_ it now means homosexual. Not a damn bit of good going all rolleyes at me on this one, chum - I might as well protest that the only reason for adopting “gay” to mean “queer” was out of a desire to sell the whole fun-loving, fey, artistic, good with colours and dangerously debonaire angle as a counterblast to the “disgusting turd-burgling deviant” stereotype, whereas I personally have known several gays who most certainly weren’t fabulous and were in fact as miserable as sin. Whatever the origins of “gay” as a pejorative, if it’s left to its own devices it’s entirely likely it will end up meaning “stupid, ineffectual” with no memory of its homophobic origins; and whether or not, they that appropriated the word for their own slang have no right to protest over someone else doing likewise. That’s how language happens. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/57 "2009-05-13T08:46:42Z")
I blame it on the 70’s series Kung-FU and Kwai Chang Caine. It’s a pop TV show that introduced some of the first themes (memes) of tolerance for Asians and used the word in an exponentially derogatory way within Western fiction. It exposed the bigotry but in a black and white way, the problem was that it was based on fictional hyperbole and was maybe abused as an epithet for parables. Never underestimate media as a cultural meme-onic feeder. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/58 "2009-05-13T10:18:22Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I’m fully aware that the term Chinaman is considered an offensive word, but I’m not exactly sure _why_ this is. What is it about that word that gives it unpleasant connotations? It’s not considered offensive to say Dutchman, Irishman, Scotsman, Englishman or Frenchman, so I’m at a loss as to why Chinaman is offensive while those other terms aren’t. Just to note that in South Africa, Dutchman is a pejorative term used about white, Afrikaans speakers (descended from Dutch settlers). Carry on… Grim ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/59 "2009-05-13T11:44:52Z")
> [@grimpixie](#): > > Just to note that in South Africa, Dutchman is a pejorative term used about white, Afrikaans speakers (descended from Dutch settlers). But, is there any strength behind that word? I picture it is as being the equivalent of the the supposedly-perjorative “cracker” directed at a white man by a black person here in the US. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145/60 "2009-05-13T11:57:44Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > I blame it on the 70’s series Kung-FU and Kwai Chang Caine. It’s a pop TV show that introduced some of the first themes (memes) of tolerance for Asians and used the word in an exponentially derogatory way within Western fiction. It exposed the bigotry but in a black and white way, the problem was that it was based on fictional hyperbole and was maybe abused as an epithet for parables. Never underestimate media as a cultural meme-onic feeder. chinaman as a negative slur far outdates Kung Fu. Read yourself some Kipling [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-chinaman-an-insulting-term/496145.md?page=4)