# What makes murderers think they're smarter than police detectives? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 20, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106 "2009-03-20T01:40:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/61 "2009-03-23T14:32:50Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > A good exercise would be to take a 150 lb bag of wet meat and then see if you can hide it somewhere where it wont be found and so no one sees you. With large bones and teeth in it that survive in the ground easily for centuries, if just the mechanics of body disposal were trained. (as RickJay notes, missing people tend to get noticed). ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/62 "2009-03-23T17:19:49Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > 1. He also gave me a method for the quick and untraceable disposal of the body that was\_extremely\_clever. I won’t recount it here because I don’t want some criminal scumbag getting useful tips on beating the law from me or dad. Make it into barbecue and feed it to the investigator a la _Fried Green Tomatoes_? LOL! ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/63 "2009-03-23T17:49:19Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > A person who is killed is usually killed (I’ve heard 80 percent) by the husband/boyfriend, or Betty White. It’s a lot easier when you already know who did it. > [@ralph124c](#): > > I agree, most murders are spur of the moment affairs. . . mostly family affair. . . . Some cursory Googling gives various ranges from 9% to 16%. Although probably 80% of the high-profile cases in the press are by family. That I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/64 "2009-03-23T18:36:53Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The truth is that there’s no way to commit a murder and be SURE you’ll get away with it. Murders people do get away with are usually because > > 1. It’s the murder of someone the authorities don’t much care about and who are themselves hard to find a trail of, like street hookers, or Gary Ridgeway, the Green River killer, targeted prostitutes and was eventually caught. It’s a pity that certain groups of people are considered “disposable.” In an episode of Criminal Minds about a serial killer of prostitutes, the BAU was asked “Why do you care who killed these people? Do you know what they were?” Agent Hotchner replied “They were humans. They were daughters and granddaughters, and some were sisters, nieces and mothers.” ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/65 "2009-03-23T20:46:44Z")
> [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > wasn’t that they came to the conclusion that the perfect murder would be to bash the victims head in with a lead pipe and put the victims fingerprints on it too make it look a suicide? “There are six distinct blunt trauma wounds to the head… but the vic’s fingerprints are on the pipe. Yep. Suicide.” Kind of like the one where the victim accidentally fell on the knife. Backwards. Several times. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/66 "2009-03-23T20:56:40Z")
Or like a news account from around 1989 or so: Investigators determined a man found shot to death had committed suicide with a bolt-action rifle. He had been shot five times. Wish I could remember more details. It would be interesting to see if there was any follow-up. ---
**Author:** ![MickNickMaggies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/59ef9b/32.png) [@MickNickMaggies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MickNickMaggies)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/67 "2009-03-24T13:26:19Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > My point is that it shouldn’t have been a brick in the wall. A hair could have been transferred via his clothing, via an item he transported to the boat from his home, or even via a visit to the boat herself. It shouldn’t have been mentioned at all. They were married to each other. It would have been odd if her hair _hadn’t_ been found on the boat! Quantity of hair is an issue, as is how the hair was removed ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/68 "2009-03-24T16:07:00Z")
> [@KnitWit](#): > > Anyway, I wondered how likely it really was that an investigation got left to civilians in this manner and why that might happen. I mostly assumed the story was full of half-truths. But if any of it IS true, killers might have gone free while the DA played golf. And they weren’t smart killers at all, according to the story. Just a bunch of hopped up kids. Weird. When I was building film sets, there was this little old guy, Sal, who was the watchman at an industrial site. He was a really, really nice old guy. His daughter was murdered quite viciously. There was NO interest from the police. Despite her unremarkable lifestyle and no evidence at all to suggest she was anything other than a hard working young woman who volunteered at the Catholic church, the police had decided that _based on the neighbourhood where she lived_ this Aouth American girl was probably into drugs and hooking. They told Sal her murder was therefore “random and unsolvable”, and that was the end of that. Sal spent his life savings on a private detective who interviewed neighbours (and it turned out that she was indeed a model citizen not the crack addicted whore the cops had decided she was). The private detective was able to come up with a suspect, but since the cops didn’t put much effort into processing the crime scene and so much time had passed, there was no physical evidence to link the guy to the crime anymore. So they _still_ weren’t interested in following up. I hate be be super-cynical, but if you want to get away with murder, kill the immigrant girl whose parents struggle with English. If you pick the pretty white woman, your crime with be under the microscope. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/69 "2009-03-24T16:21:14Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > I hate be be super-cynical, but if you want to get away with murder, kill the immigrant girl whose parents struggle with English. If you pick the pretty white woman, your crime will be under the microscope. Not necessarily. Trust me on that. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/70 "2009-03-24T16:51:37Z")
Some times the murderer is just taking the risk that the police lack the will and resources to catch them. Case in point - My wife works in HR. Today (yes March 24, 2009) she is meeting with an employee to put him on administrative leave (go home, we’ll continue to pay you - it’s a state government job). This employee is suspected of murdering his wife recently. The body has not been found. A few weeks ago, he was recorded crossing the border into Mexico in his car, and returning a few days later. Naturally, there is a strong suspicion that he disposed of the body in Mexico. One can assume that he has calculated that the local Los Angeles police are limited in their ability to locate the body in Mexico (recent news reports of abundant drug gang killings and ineffectual police). He may yet get caught by the lab techs, but we know that the TV shows are really fantasy versions of reality. Bottom line - he is counting on the principal of “no body = no crime”. He may get arrested and tried, but I am betting he gets off. And then my wife will probably have to give him his job back. So, calcualted risk that may pay off. ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/71 "2009-03-24T16:56:51Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Remember, if you’re going to fake a suicide by gun, the second bullet through the head is going to be a tough sell. This was on CSI recently. It was deemed an actual suicide, despite the two bullets. The first bullet got lodged in the barrell, so when the girl pulled the tigger again, they both went into her head. (I have no idea if this is possible, but I just saw the episode recently, so thought I would mention it! 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/72 "2009-03-24T17:16:45Z")
The problem is not how to get away with murder - the problem is how to get away with murder where you have a motive and a connection to the victim. To get away with murder would be relatively easy - just murder a random stranger for no reason. Unless you are really unlucky, you probably will not be caught if you: 1. Have no criminal record; 2. Never do it again (that is, don’t establish a pattern); 3. Never tell anyone about it; 4. Keep no “souvenirs” or have any other connection to your victim; and 5. Use reasonable caution in the choice of victim and circumstances. Say, break into the house of an elderly person living alone in a house without security features, while wearing gloves, bash their head in with something you find on the premises, and immediately leave, taking nothing. Dispose of your clothes after. Follow these rules, how would the cops catch you unless you got unlucky? OTOH, why would anyone do that? Most people who murder either have a motive, or really enjoy killing (and so will not stop). The cops are sure to question anyone with an obvious motive, and serial killers create a data bank of info which can in many cases be used to eventually identify and catch them. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/73 "2009-03-24T18:12:39Z")
> [@Chicago](#): > > He ran into my knife. He ran into my knife ten times! Course, that one didn’t work… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/74 "2009-03-24T21:36:50Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Follow these rules, how would the cops catch you unless you got unlucky? I would add, “commit the murder outside” but your rules are not unreasonable. > [@](#): > > OTOH, why would anyone do that? Most people who murder either have a motive, or really enjoy killing (and so will not stop). Right - if you have nothing to gain by it, why bother? If you are a sociopath who just wants to commit the perfect crime, you are going to be too egotistic to keep your mouth shut about it. > [@](#): > > The cops are sure to question anyone with an obvious motive, and serial killers create a data bank of info which can in many cases be used to eventually identify and catch them. There is some French guy - Vicoq, or something similar - who was the first “scientific detective” IIRC. He said, unless it was obvious who had done it, he always suspected whoever had an alibi, since only the guilty went to the trouble of establishing witnesses. And consider - most people are perfectly well aware who killed Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman. But the murderer couldn’t keep his nose clean enough to stay out of prison. Because he is the kind of person who would cut his ex-wife’s head nearly off because he thought she was boinking a waiter, he was the kind of person who thought he could get away with other crimes, too. Crime doesn’t pay, not only because it attracts people who have failed at everything else, but on its own as well. There is a chapter in _Freakonomics_ on why drug dealers live with their mothers - because drug dealing is like being an Amway salesman or someone near the bottom of a pyramid scheme. I read a study somewhere that, if you average the take from the various robberies for most felons, the felons would have done better with a minimum wage job. No doubt that it skewed by the fact that they mostly were earning fifty cents a hour in the prison laundry much of their lives, but food for thought nonetheless. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/75 "2009-03-25T05:10:24Z")
Ted Bundy probably topped them all for arrogance. As I recall, he thought he couldn’t get caught, and then once caught, he scoffed at the idea he would actually be executed, confident he could keep his appeals in the courts for eternity. They said he seemed mighty shocked when his day came in the chair (no pun intended :D). ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/76 "2009-03-25T12:36:09Z")
The stupidity of many seemingly intelligent killers is not to be underestimated. There was a case recently featured on _Forensic Files_ where a guy, before he bludgeoned his wife to death (and tried to hide the body elsewhere) did extensive online research on murder, using search terms like “Kill Spouse”. He was a computer geek working for a large state agency, which made his computer seizable, and all this damning evidence was right there on the hard drive. He eventually argued at trial that Bad Men had broken in, killed his wife and forced him to dispose of the body, threatening to kill him if he spilled the beans. The stupidity is mind-numbing. Sometimes the defense will use this as a ploy - “My client has advanced degrees. He/she couldn’t possibly be that big a moron!” Well, yes he could. And was. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/77 "2009-03-25T15:28:11Z")
I think in reality that most non-psychopaths who murder do so in the heat of some sort of rage, and so the question is not so much “how do I carefully plan this murder?” as “now that the body is cooling on the floor, how do I get away with it?” The latter task is, clearly, going to be the more difficult, if not totally impossible. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/78 "2009-03-25T16:10:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Because [O.J. Simpson] he is the kind of person who would cut his ex-wife’s head nearly off because he thought she was boinking a waiter, he was the kind of person who thought he could get away with other crimes, too. > > Shodan O.J. also had good reason to think the police were his pals. The cops had been called numerous times to check out domestic disturbances at his home. He always got away, because cops LOVED him! EVERYBODY loved him! The cops would ask for his autograph before leaving him to beat up Nicole again. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/79 "2009-03-25T16:35:07Z")
Which is, of course, another reason why the idea that the cops framed him is ridiculous. A “normal” person might think “I got lucky once - better keep my head down and my nose clean, because I might not get lucky again”. OJ thought “I got away with it once - I’m invincible”. Plus, the kind of person who kills once is likely to have impulse control problems that would lead him to commit other kinds of impulsive crimes. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106/80 "2009-03-26T00:03:27Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The stupidity of many seemingly intelligent killers is not to be underestimated. > > There was a case recently featured on _Forensic Files_ where a guy, before he bludgeoned his wife to death (and tried to hide the body elsewhere) did extensive online research on murder, using search terms like “Kill Spouse”. > > He was a computer geek working for a large state agency, which made his computer seizable, and all this damning evidence was right there on the hard drive. He eventually argued at trial that Bad Men had broken in, killed his wife and forced him to dispose of the body, threatening to kill him if he spilled the beans. > > The stupidity is mind-numbing. I saw that episode and had the same reaction as you: :smack: :rolleyes: And there’s the people that keep bloody clothes and weapons in their home, or worse the guy that showed up at an interview with the police wearing the same clothes he wore during the crime, and with visible blood stains. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-murderers-think-theyre-smarter-than-police-detectives/490106.md?page=3)