# What makes neighborhoods "safe"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2017, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757 "2017-11-16T08:09:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/1 "2017-11-16T08:09:59Z")
Instead of continuing a hijack of another thread, I’ll just put this here: > [@Why not an anti-NRA lobby?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-an-anti-nra-lobby/801061/33): > > [snip] once on a local call-in tv show where the topic was gun control I shut up the host by pointing out she lived in a safe gated community in the suburbs and even her gun control guest admitted that living in a dangerous area of the city might warrant a gun for protection. And is that “safe gated community” awash in guns? What makes it safe? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/2 "2017-11-16T12:34:39Z")
A gated community is going to tend to be safer because they control access, so that strangers to the neighborhood are less likely to come in and commit crimes, and because they are higher-income, so the residents are less likely to commit crimes against each other. I have no idea of the rate of gun ownership inside a gated community vs. any other kind, but that is beside the point. Whatever guns there aren’t used to commit crimes. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/3 "2017-11-16T12:37:42Z")
What if they leave the gates to commit crimes elsewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/4 "2017-11-16T12:49:07Z")
It is mainly demographics. I live in one of the safest small cities in the country and it was the most safe in the U.S. a few years ago but still swapping spots with similar cities. It is just a high income distant Boston suburb and there aren’t any poor areas in it. There simply aren’t very many people around that have an incentive to commit crimes. The sense of community and policing is also very strong. It isn’t a geographical thing. It is close to Woonsocket, Rhode Island and the closest state border crossing is like going from the U.S. into Mexico and it is only 15 minutes away. You know it the second you cross over the border even if you don’t notice the sign because the whole atmosphere changes abruptly. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/5 "2017-11-16T12:52:43Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > What if they leave the gates to commit crimes elsewhere? That leaves their own neighborhood safer, but since they are mostly higher-income, they tend to commit fewer crimes overall. So that is not typically a problem. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/6 "2017-11-16T13:08:56Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > It is mainly demographics. I’d wager that there is a strong correlation between the “safety” of a neighborhood with the socioeconomic nature of its inhabitants. With a likely exception for more isolated, insular areas. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/7 "2017-11-16T13:57:18Z")
The crime rate, which mostly comes down to demographics and socioeconomic status of the residents. Most upper class neighborhoods I’ve been to weren’t gated. Some are just a few miles from the ghetto. So there is nothing stopping criminals from going over and robbing. However they don’t, probably due to a mix of not realizing it and worrying their odds of being caught are higher. Who knows though. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/8 "2017-11-16T15:45:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That leaves their own neighborhood safer, but since they are mostly higher-income, they tend to commit fewer crimes overall. So that is not typically a problem. > > Regards, > Shodan Perhaps true for committing fewer violent crimes. Tax evasion, money laundering, cheating contractors out of their pay, embezzlement, and other white collar crimes are likely more common in gated communities. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/9 "2017-11-16T15:53:53Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Perhaps true for committing fewer violent crimes. Tax evasion, money laundering, cheating contractors out of their pay, embezzlement, and other white collar crimes are likely more common in gated communities. I don’t expect crimes like domestic violence to be much different either. The big crime in my neighborhood seems to be paying for yard work in cash to help the landscapers avoid paying taxes. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/10 "2017-11-16T15:54:16Z")
A “safe gated community” would be safer because there is limited access from the general public. And you know how untrustworthy the gen pop can be. 🙂 A “safe gated community” also proves the broken windows theory. The home owners association’s legal team(s) would frown on any unrepaired damage. I have no idea if a “safe gated community” is awash with guns. I would suspect that there would be higher percentage of $35K+ shotguns and $5K engraved pistols stored there. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/11 "2017-11-16T16:00:33Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Perhaps true for committing fewer violent crimes. Tax evasion, money laundering, cheating contractors out of their pay, embezzlement, and other white collar crimes are likely more common in gated communities. Tax cheats aren’t likely to beat you senseless, break your bones, or murder your family because you didn’t keep enough cash in your house to feed their drug habit. just sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/12 "2017-11-16T16:10:16Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Tax cheats aren’t likely to beat you senseless, break your bones, or murder your family because you didn’t keep enough cash in your house to feed their drug habit. just sayin’ But they may be more likely to molest your 10 year old son. What is your point? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/13 "2017-11-16T16:17:08Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Tax cheats aren’t likely to beat you senseless, break your bones, or murder your family because you didn’t keep enough cash in your house to feed their drug habit. just sayin’ I’m just saying that we can’t pat people on the back for living in ivory towers safe from the great unwashed and admire how low their violent crime statistics are when they are as likely if not more to commit non-violent white collar crimes that involve substantially more money and cause damage to more people. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/14 "2017-11-16T18:09:09Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m just saying that we can’t pat people on the back for living in ivory towers safe from the great unwashed and admire how low their violent crime statistics are when they are as likely if not more to commit non-violent white collar crimes that involve substantially more money and cause damage to more people. The question is - What makes neighborhoods “safe”? “Safe” as in free from, or less likely to exposed to, physical harm. Your basic white-collar crimes can affect the financial well-being of someone in any neighborhood. Muggings, robbery, rape, murder usually don’t occur in the average “safe gated community”. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/15 "2017-11-16T18:52:07Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Perhaps true for committing fewer violent crimes. Tax evasion, money laundering, cheating contractors out of their pay, embezzlement, and other white collar crimes are likely more common in gated communities. I disagree with this whole statement. The monetary amounts might differ but I’m sure tax evasion, money laundering, and embezzlement are happening in far greater numbers in low income areas. Cheating contractors would be happening but most contractors have been bit so bad they refuse to work in those neighborhoods unless it’s cash under the table for someone they know. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/16 "2017-11-16T19:39:18Z")
Mafia presence? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/17 "2017-11-17T05:43:47Z")
The objective data regarding rates of crime might be a good starting point for making such an assessment. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/18 "2017-11-17T07:47:57Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Most upper class neighborhoods I’ve been to weren’t gated. Yeah, AFAICT something less than [3% of Americans live in gated communities](https://www.citylab.com/equity/2013/07/threat-gated-communities/6198/), so they are not really typical of US neighborhoods. I have no info on whether gated communities are safer than non-gated neighborhoods that are geographically and socioeconomically similar to them. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-neighborhoods-safe/801757/19 "2017-11-17T22:43:25Z")
You’re not going to live in a gated community in Hogheaven, North Dakota. Tends to be a metro-suburban lifestyle option for yer professional nuclear family.