# What makes Palestinian children unique? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 27, 2002, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141 "2002-12-27T11:11:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/61 "2002-12-28T23:17:53Z")
The Sheba Farms issue is important because it is used as by Hejbollah as a pretext for attacks against Israel. By siding with Israel on the territorial issue and condemning Hejbollah attacks the UN takes away that pretext and allows the US to put additional diplomatic pressure on , say, Syria to reign in Hejbollah. There is no circular reasoning. The UN has a special responsibility **now** because it chose to be involved in the past by proposing a two-state solution and voting to recognize Israel. It has a responsibility to stick with the issue until it is finally resolved. Or are you suggesting that it should never have been involved at all? As for stateless people it matters because it means that Israel is governing people who are not its citizens and occupying territory outside its internationally recognized borders so naturally an international organization like the UN is relevant. One key difference between Tibet and Palestine is that Tibetans are considered Chinese citizens AFAIK which changes the issue under international law. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/62 "2002-12-29T00:14:45Z")
Duck Duck, Thanks for the actual contents. Of note: Nothing in it, even in specific response to the question of singling out Israel, that supports the view that the UN views the area as its “special” case of unfinished business as a motivation for the singling out of Israel for particular condemnations. Nah, just because it is Israel, and Israel is a colonial oppressor. Always condemn Israel. The Palestinian observers response to the murder of eleven Israeli civilians in Hebron > [@](#): > > What were those Israelis doing in Hebron, he asked. … One must be sick to accept the settlers and colonizers in Hebron; in such situations, extreme reactions were seen, and were understood and legitimate under international law. Were there kids murdered in this last one or not? Honestly there are so many attacks on Israelis with so many children murdered by Palestinian terrorists that I’ve lost track. But Israel’s keeping kids from attending their regular schools merits special condemnation. Cyber is right that the problem is more a GA problem than a SC one. Look at that vote. How many of those small countries are Islamic? How many are beholden to Arab countries? How many were former colonies and very sympathetic to the (to me distorted and inaccurate) view that Israel is a Western colonial power? But how do you vote against children and puppy dogs? Especially when it has no binding power and is just for show. Israel will never prevail against the bloc. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/63 "2002-12-29T00:20:34Z")
Hmmmm D seid are you referring to the attack when 12 members (I belive one died later in hospital) of the Israeli security forces were shot dead in Hebron (9 soldiers and 3 armed members of a settlers militia who arrived on the scene after the attack)? Of course that attack was legal under international law, people have the right to fight back against an oppressive occupation. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/64 "2002-12-29T00:21:51Z")
Sorry, I should of been clearer the armed settlers arrived after the **start** of the attack (and engaged the Palestinian gunmen) ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/65 "2002-12-29T00:47:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rampisad \* > **and I am using the word occupation very loosely in regard to the latter, since there are many sustainable arguments that the situation does not legally constitute an occupation** It’s very difficult to read international law and UN resolutions in any way that doesn’t bring you to the conclusion that the West Bank and Gaza are occupied territories and Israel are bound by the Geneva convention concerning he treatment of people in occupied territories (resolution 242 for example which speaks of the “inadmissiabilty of land gained by war” and “the territories occupied in the recent conflict”, which are clear indications of their status). However, if they were not occupied territories this would make Israel guilty of the crime against humanity of appartheid, so I can’t see why anyone would argue that they were. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/66 "2002-12-29T00:50:49Z")
\*we’ren’t ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/67 "2002-12-29T01:29:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > In your opinion, Israel is the automatic Good Guy, so therefore any suggestion that other people in the world might think that Israel is the Bad Guy here elicits only the comment from you that the suggestion is “ridiculous”. No actually that is not my opinion, not have I said anything that would imply this. If you have a legitimate case to make it should be possible without this type of distortion. > [@](#): > > You refuse even to entertain for a moment the suggestion that maybe Vanuatu and the Grenadines and Macedonia and France think that Israel is the Bad Guy, so that’s why they pass all those anti-Israel resolutions. Strange. You ask if I’ve ever considered etc., I answer that I have, you say “Okay, that’s fair enough”, and sum up by repeating that I refuse to consider etc. Do you pay attention to what you type? In general, these accusations about refusing to consider (and other silliness of this type) go nowhere. > [@](#): > > Sorry, I’m not _reeeeeeally_ in the mood for bushwhacking through the conspiracy theories tonight, other than to ask, in a desultory sort of way, because I know that you don’t, if you have any kind of **CITE** for that. > > You know, it’s like, just FTR, on behalf of the Fight Against Ignorance and generations yet to come, I feel obliged to ask, Izzy, whether you have any kind of **PROOF** that the “Arabs”… Sorry, no cites or proof - nor will I ask you for the same for your own opinion. Here’s a new concept for you to consider - really, a revolutionary one, for you. In many debates, and regarding many issues, the interpretation of agreed upon facts is a matter of opinion, not cites. There is not necessarily any “cite” that will “prove” that the Arabs exert enormous influence at the UN. Even if true, you will not find links to documents at which the UN formally cedes influence to the Arabs. In such circumstances as these, the proper approach is NOT to go about googling to find all sorts of blather that you can then paste into the thread. No, you can make actual arguments in favor of your position, or leave it as a difference of opinion. In this particular case, here are some (hopefully) agreed upon facts: Arabs are a majority in many countries, and are a population of over 100 million (I don’t know exactly how many). Israel is one country of about 6 million. Many of the Arab countries have large amounts of oil wealth. Israel has none. In addition to the Arab countries, there are also numerous Muslim countries (e.g. Iran, Indonesia, Pakistan et al) who are also inclined to be symphathetic to their co-religionists. Many European & other countries have large Muslim minorities, which have political impact. In general, there are about 1 billion Muslims in the world, as compared to about 12 million Jews. In light of the above, it seems obvious to me that in a quarrel between one Jewish State and many Arab ones, it would not be surprising if world bodies were influenced in the direction of the Arab side. You don’t think so? OK, your prerogative, as always. But don’t be trying to prove that the UN is not biased against Israel simply by virtue of the fact that they vote against Israel. It’s called circular reasoning, something you can probably learn more about through Google. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/68 "2002-12-29T16:59:31Z")
Okay, Izzy, as long as you realize that there’s not a shred of proof for your “Arabs control the UN!” theory, and as long as you realize it’s just an opinion, and not a fact, then I’m happy. –Well, no, actually I’m not “happy”, but… \<\< shrug \>\> ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/69 "2002-12-29T20:16:51Z")
Duck Duck, step away from the machete … I certainly didn’t read Izzy to say “Arabs control the UN!” Care to show where he said that quote or anything that resembled it? Maybe I missed it … His proposition, as I read it, is that the Arab states have a disproportionate influence in the UN compared to Israel. And there is a plethora of evidence cited already to support such a contention. As for my take on it, I’d say that the Arab POV has a disproprtionate influence in the GA and that use of that disprortionate influence has resulted in a strong anti-Israel bias. That apparent special status for Israeli actions, that holding Israel to standards and special mention that no other country is subject to, no matter how henious their records, results in the UN as a whole disqualifying itself in the eyes of Israelis as an honest broker. Some of that Arab influence is a result of pandering to the business partners. Some of that is the result of a successful misrepresentation of Israel as a “colonial power” which evokes natural sympathies with the numerous small countries that were formerly victims of Western Imperialism. Some that results from antipathy to the United States - they don’t want to anger the powerhouse that is the US by taking her on directly but they can whip Israel as a surrogate. Some of it is a result of natural sympathies of fellow Islamist nations. In some cases it may even be influenced by antisemitism … or not. But there is no evidence to support the proposition that it is because the UN holds a special sense of responsibilty for the area of the former Palestinian Mandate as unfinished business. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/70 "2002-12-29T23:42:22Z")
Well, see, I just simply have a lot of trouble _believing_ that UN member nations like Brazil and Ghana and Viet Nam would _allow_ OPEC nations to push them around. Every time I try to visualize it, I break out in helpless giggles–guys in Arab headgear and business suits going around to the Brazilian UN office and telling them, with veiled threats, that they’d better vote for Resolution 107 “or else…” For one thing, how would it look to the folks back home, if it got out that they were voting the way the Arabs told them to? Nope, I believe that they voted for Resolution 107 because their conscience told them to, not because Arabs leaned on them. “The simplest explanation is the best”, and faced with a choice between the complexity of an unspoken Arab conspiracy to force the UN to pass pro-Palestinian resolutions, and the simplicity of UN representatives feeling sorry for poor beleaguered Palestine, I choose the simple explanation. I think you and Izzy are _way_ overestimating how much influence OPEC has in the UN, and I think the members of the UN enjoy the privilege of being able to vote any damn way they want to. Why is it that no UN members have ever come forward with complaints about undue influence? Why has Israel never been able to document any undue influence? Is it because they’re all afraid of the Arabs, and-- _“repercussions”_ :eek: ? Or is it because there’s no such thing? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/71 "2002-12-30T02:00:49Z")
> [@](#): > > His proposition, as I read it, is that the Arab states have a **disproportionate** influence in the UN compared to Israel. Emphasis mine. Disproportionate probably isn’t the best choice of words. Hard numbers ( without adding up on ethnologue ) seem to be difficult to come by, but there are 200-300 million Arabic-speaking people and 22 ( I think ) Arab League states. So Israel really is outnumbered, both population-wise and country-wise - and in a big way. So Arab influence in the U.N. isn’t necessarily _disproportionate_ ( it might be, but it would be hard to prove such an analysis ). Now the question of whether Israel is routinely treated unfairly by the U.N. is obviously much more debateable :). And no, I’m not going to take a firm position on that ;). Other than that I think it is reasonable to say that since the first intifida started in the 1980’s, Israel has become a little more politically isolated vis-a-vis many western nations ( obviously it was never popular in the ME ). A political and propaganda problem that is likely to feed back into the U.N… - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/72 "2002-12-30T04:47:39Z")
Duck Duck, No offense but you do not seem to be reading the posts that you are responding to. And you really owe Izzy an apology for misrepresenting his position. Tamerlane’s point is noted - “disproportionate” may not be the best word choice\*, for the reasons stated - but your response has little to do with what I’ve written. No one has claimed Arab enforcers go around threatening to break kneecaps. Influence can be coercive without being overt; decisions can even be sincere and still be consistently unfairly biased. \*Although I would argue that even with the Arab/Islamic plurality, Israel’s unique status of no permenant regional group membership and exclusion from a many UN sites, places Israel at a position of even less influence that its size would justify, and that Arab influence exceeds even their numbers. But Tamerlane is correct, it would be hard to quantify such influence and thus extremely difficult to prove. I’ll restate. The GA, for the various reasons noted in my last post, panders to Arab sensibilties visavis Israel, and by this repetitive and unfair singling out of Israel has disqualified the UN as an impartial and honest broker in the conflict. ---
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/73 "2002-12-30T06:39:39Z")
Your conclusion hardly follows. Even if you are right about GA bias (and you haven’t given any real evidence for your “various reasons”) that doesn’t mean that the UNSC or the Secretariat is incabable of being an honest broker in the conflict. Especially if you compare to other possible honest brokers like the US government. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/74 "2002-12-30T14:03:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > Okay, Izzy, as long as you realize that there’s not a shred of proof for your “Arabs control the UN!” theory, and as long as you realize it’s just an opinion, and not a fact, then I’m happy. My “Arabs control the UN!” theory"? In addition to my having never propounded any such theory (as noted by DSeid), I also explicitly [denied](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2772474#post2772474) this the first time you tried to put this in my mouth. As for “not a shred of proof”, it depends on what you take that to mean. There is no “proof” in a mathematical sense. There is, again, evidence of disproportionate focus on Israeli misdeeds as compared to those of others. **CyberPundit** - who seems to share your general position but unlike yourself has made actual substantive comments in this thread - has suggested that these are due to PR (more attention to the region) or legalistic (UN responsibilities) reasons. I think the most rational explanation - by far - is the factors I’ve (& DSeid has) given. But this is not something that can be objectively “proved”. Similarly, there is evidence in this thread that you’ve consistently and blatantly misrepresented my positions here. This would suggest that you suffer from a severe lack of integrity. But it is always possible that your mindset is so focused on your glib preening that you don’t really pay attention to what other people - or even you yourself - are saying. Again, a judgement call. **Tamerlane** , what you bring up is a semantic nitpick. I meant disproportionate as in “A is far greater than B”. If you want, pick some other word. Point is that even if the Arabs have influence in proportion with their far greater numbers, as a practical matter this will push the UN into an anti-Israel stance more than would be the case with a neutral body. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/75 "2002-12-30T15:05:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Tamerlane, what you bring up is a semantic nitpick. Yep. But one I thought worthwhile in this particular context. You can disagree of course ;). I agree Arab states have a greater voting power in the U.N., though I do think this gets balanced out at the very highest diplomatic levels ( as opposed to lower committee-level resolutions ) by staunch U.S. support with its potent veto and big economic stick. I also think that when it comes to peace negotiations and such ( which are very much in the public eye and therefore ‘under the gun’ ) the UN _leadership_ ( i.e. Secretary General and office ) seems to make a genuine _effort_ at being neutral. They may not always be successful, to be sure. All the proceeding merely my subjective opinion. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/76 "2002-12-30T15:30:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamerlane \* > Yep. But one I thought worthwhile in this particular context. You can disagree of course ;). No, what you follow with is actually a substantive point (though one that I disagree with). What is a semantic nitpick is whether the term “disproportionate” is appropriate in such circumstances. I was using it to mean “Arab influence is disproportionate in size as compared to Israeli influence”. You were saying that “Arab influence is _larger_ than Israeli influence but possibly proportionate to the size of the Arab population”. Whichever. > [@](#): > > I agree Arab states have a greater voting power in the U.N., though I do think this gets balanced out at the very highest diplomatic levels ( as opposed to lower committee-level resolutions ) by staunch U.S. support with its potent veto and big economic stick. I would add that larger number of states means more than just the number of additional votes. Because if you are some obscure state far removed from the issue, and you have a choice of ticking off many Arabs states or one small Israeli one, you might well opt for the latter, and thus be more inclined to buy into the Arab viewpoint. > [@](#): > > I also think that when it comes to peace negotiations and such ( which are very much in the public eye and therefore ‘under the gun’ ) the UN _leadership_ ( i.e. Secretary General and office ) seems to make a genuine _effort_ at being neutral. They may not always be successful, to be sure. Yes, but when you say “the public eye”, it all depends on which public’s eye you are talking about. The Pakistani public will view “being neutral” differently than the US one, for example. In any event, you apparently agree that there exists anti-Israel pressure at the UN - we may quibble at the extent to which various UN entities are successful at (or even attempt at) resisting it. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/77 "2002-12-30T15:46:44Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by DSeid:_ > No offense but you do not seem to be reading the posts that you are responding to. And you really owe Izzy an apology for misrepresenting his position. Izzy: > [@](#): > > \*\*I wouldn’t say Arabs control the UN. But that have enough influence to force the issue on matters that they care about, and there are not enough countries willing to go to the mat in the other direction. \*\* > [@](#): > > **Do you honestly believe that the difference in population, number of UN seats, and oil wealth between the Arabs and Israel is NOT a factor in the UN focus and positions regarding the Israel/Palestinian issue?** > [@](#): > > **The reason the Arabs were beaten on the racism issue was because it was taken in the wake of the peace concessions, during a brief interlude of relatively warm feelings toward Israel. To say that since you have not won every single issue does not mean that you don’t have disproportionate influence.** Answering CyberPundit’s question, "Beside what do you mean by “disproportionate influence”? > [@](#): > > **Disproportionate compared to the Israelis. Or the Rwandis. Such that more attention will be paid to things the Arabs are concerned about than other groups.** > [@](#): > > \*\*it seems obvious to me that in a quarrel between one Jewish State and many Arab ones, it would not be surprising if world bodies were influenced in the direction of the Arab side. \*\* > [@](#): > > **even if the Arabs have influence in proportion with their far greater numbers, as a practical matter this will push the UN into an anti-Israel stance more than would be the case with a neutral body.** Yes, I am reading his posts, and I’m receiving the very clear message from them that he believes that the Arabs have a disproportionate amount of influence in the UN, so much so that they can get pro-Palestinian resolutions passed, whereas normally, according to Izzy, without said Arab influence these resolutions would not be passed. Persons who can get their resolutions pushed through an organization may be said to “control” the voting of that organization. If my Aunt Martha can get her resolutions pushed through the Garden Club, she may be said to control the voting of the Garden Club. If Mayor Daley can get his ordinances pushed through the Chicago City Council, he may be said to control the voting of the Chicago City Council. If the Arabs can get their pro-Palestinian resolutions pushed through the UN, they may be said to control the voting of the UN. “The Arabs control the UN” is the simplified version. Look. Canada votes against the U.S. on pro-Palestinian resolutions. Canada is an energy _producer_, and as such is not subject to “vote for Resolution 107 or we’ll cut off your oil” OPEC pressure. Without being leaned on by Arabs, Canada still votes to spank Israel. Repeatedly. [http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/un/fighting.html](http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/un/fighting.html) > [@](#): > > Canada supports 10 out of 12 resolutions, which were opposed by Israel and the United States and contain language certain to give offence to many in the Jewish diaspora. The resolutions regard Israeli towns in the Golan Heights as illegal settlements and refer to “Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory, including Jerusalem”, implying that the whole city is Palestinian. > > The resolutions supported by Ottawa also “reaffirm that the Palestine refugees are entitled to their property and to income derived from it.” Approximately 3.6 million Palestinians are registered as refugees with the United Nations, with 1 million of them living in camps in the Mideast. Another Canadian-approved measure calls for a Palestinian university in the current Israeli capital of “occupied” Jerusalem. > > \< snip \> > > Criticism of Israel at the UN continued this week as another branch of the world body endorsed the decision by the UN’s Commission on Human Rights to launch an inquiry into “breaches of international humanitarian law in the occupied Palestinian territories.” > > In that vote, which was passed 21-19 with 11 abstentions, Canada opposed endorsement after intense lobbying by the United States to have the measure defeated. > > A Canadian diplomat said the decision, which also described some of Israel’s actions as “war crimes,” was “unbalanced.” He added the international community should focus on helping Israel and the Palestinians to end the violence and resume peace negotiations. Notice how _that_ particular “intense lobbying” got noticed, and reported? If the Arabs are also practicing some “intense lobbying”, huccome the CDN Friends of ICEJ Canada haven’t noticed it, and reported it? I’d think they’d be the first ones on the crime scene, drooling, cameras and tape recorders in hand. I would also like to see a list of which nations you regard as the “Arab” nations who form the ad hoc consortium that is exerting this influence. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/78 "2002-12-30T16:01:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > If the Arabs can get their pro-Palestinian resolutions pushed through the UN, they may be said to control the voting of the UN. “The Arabs control the UN” is the simplified version. This is absurd. I’ve not said that the Arabs can get any and all resolutions that they please pushed through the UN. But they can get enough to tilt the balance on that issue. DDG, I rather incline to think you know that there is a difference between “exert disproportionate influence at the UN” and “control the UN”. If not, you would not be twisting my words this way. Stop it already. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/79 "2002-12-30T18:01:56Z")
Duck Duck, You have made it quite clear that your image of Arab control is > [@](#): > > guys in Arab headgear and business suits going around to the Brazilian UN office and telling them, with veiled threats, that they’d better vote for Resolution 107 “or else…” Or least that is the straw man that you’ve set up. Do you > [@](#): > > break out in helpless giggles thinking about how the many small countries would rather curry favor with Arab nations than piss them off? About how many countries have large Islamic populations and want to play to their hometown sympathies? About how the misrepresentation of Israel as Western Colonial power plays well in the numerous small former colonies? About how there is no self-interest in voting against Arab interests? What praytell, is your explanation of why 26% of the UN’s Human Rights Commissions condemnations are of Israel alone? Especially since the rights of Arabs in Israel far exceed those ceded Arabs in Arab countries and even in the occuppied territories the conditions for Arabs is not as bad as it is for the Arab Man or more so Woman in the street in much of the rest of the Arab world. Is Israel such an egregious violator of human rights that it deserves Sauron’s eye focused on it alone? One would think that the UN would be interested in human rights everywhere, not just in occupied territories, and that a commission under UN auspices would not flinch at condemning a Syria or such others as their offenses evince … What praytell is your understanding of why Israel is the only country to only have tempory mebership in a regional group, and that only within the last three years? Without such membership Israel has had _no_ opportunity to serve on key committees let alone on the security council. And even today, it is only allowed to be part of the regional group discussions in New York, and is barred from attending any discussion on any subject in a regional meeting held elsewhere. Why is that? And how should Israel interpret that in terms of the potential of the UN to be fair? Here are the possible explanations: The UN feels a special obligation to police Israel’s actions since a UN mandate created her. No statement has ever been made by a UN official c.w. that POV and one would think that the UN would then have been just as intersted in condemning the lack of rights to Palestinians between 1948 and 1967 when the West Bank was under Arab control. Or as interested in human rights abuses by Palestinians. The alleged offenses by Israel make all the rest of the world pale in comparison. Just patently untrue. Israel’s current offense is that curfew restrictions prevent kids from attending their regular schools and arrests of some teenaged males. Maybe even a few cases of what could be described as the equivilant of police brutality. Nothing to be proud of or to be an apologist for, but the worst human rights abuses going on today? Not by an automatic rifle full of long-shots. Much of the world is just antisemetic and dislikes Israel just because it is a Jewish state. Well one can’t totally discount that some world leaders are antisemitic, and that a fair amount of individual nations populations are. To believe, this close to WW2, that antisemitism does not exist and that it does not motivate the actions of any world leaders would be extremely naive. But to believe that the UN GA as whole is motivated by such would be excessively paranoid. And no evidence for such exists. I dismiss this hypothesis as well. Arab nations have an inordinate amount of power at the GA level compared to Israel and Israeli interests and nations vote their self-interests above all else. Being fair to Israel just does not rank in importance. Yeah, this one seems to fit pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141/80 "2002-12-30T23:29:56Z")
> [@](#): > > What praytell, is your explanation of why 26% of the UN’s Human Rights Commissions condemnations are of Israel alone? > > What praytell is your understanding of why Israel is the only country to only have tempory mebership in a regional group, and that only within the last three years? Quite simply, because the rest of the General Assembly feels that Israel is in the wrong. Not because Arab nations are exerting undue influence. I see that we will have to agree to disagree on this one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-palestinian-children-unique/145141.md?page=5)