# What makes someone a Christian? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071 "2005-02-20T22:34:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/201 "2005-03-15T12:59:16Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > RE “loving one’s enemies” & all. > > I don’t understand “loving” hateful people as in any way feeling affection or wishing them unqualified happiness, but in doing right by them. In Phelps’ case, “Christian love” would be in treating him as a fellow human being who holds reprehensable views- taking some effort to try to reason with him, and then dismissing him & going off to repair the damage he causes if he refuses to listen. > > IMO, the most disgusting people are child molesters. I don’t thing execution is too extreme for them. That said, if I were in a situation where I had authority over such people, I am obliged to provide them with adequate shelter, nutrition, therepy & education- i.e. “loving” them, as a Christian I am obliged with letting them know God makes forgiveness & reconciliation available to them through Christ. Still, I am also obliged to keep them locked up until their sentence runs its course, and if their sentence involves, execution- to handle such execution in as respectful & humane way as possible. i.e., “Playing God?” I thought the christian god was supposed to be the judge of who and what is reprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/202 "2005-03-15T13:02:04Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I agree. Although I question the execution. Love might require that you don’t support of participate in that. I wonder about healing. Within love is the power to heal. Jesus asked us to see others as him or an extension of ourselves, as in one body. I wonder how love could heal extreme cases. I can’t imagine what goes on inside child molesters to move them to do such a henious thing. I have had similar feelings about drug dealers who recruit children to use and deal drugs. > I do agree we have an obligation to protect society. Doesn’t “protecting society” go against “judge not”? I mean, if you truly believe that it is wrong to judge others, aren’t you supposed to let the chips fall where they may? Seems like a direct contradiction to christian doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/203 "2005-03-15T13:43:14Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Doesn’t “protecting society” go against “judge not”? I mean, if you truly believe that it is wrong to judge others, aren’t you supposed to let the chips fall where they may? Seems like a direct contradiction to christian doctrine. Matt 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matt 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Seems to me not an instruction to avoid judgement, but rather a warning to use the same criteria when judging others as you would want to be used against yourself. Another example for the “Do unto others” list as it were. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/204 "2005-03-15T15:07:36Z")
Love does not preclude anger, or judgement of actions, or denial of opinions. I have much to discuss with Phelps, if he was willing, and in all likelihood he would have little pleasure in listening to it. But it is not the same as hatred. For me, that would be taking my own taste of the poison that he has taken, and now spews out. (And don’t mistake me, I am sorely, and repeatedly tempted to do it.) He judges in hatred, and far worse, he names that hatred to be the hatred of Jesus. He makes his judgement without compassion, and speaks it with venom, and cruelty. These are the very same emotional responses that he brings to my heart. I reject them there, as well. I will not join him in hatred, even of himself. But I will speak out that his judgement is his own. And that hatred is hatred, whatever claim one makes that it is righteous. I will call his words foul to his face. I will stand beside those he condemns, and despises and claim them to be my brothers and sisters in Christ’s name. But I will not join him in my turn to hate. Evil is subtle. Doing evil in the name of good is the most poisonous of all evils. It takes the cure, and tries to make it the disease. This seems so obvious to me that I have, and often do question if Phelps might not be willingly serving evil. But, the answer to that question is in his heart, and my curiosity is not a part of my authority. I shall speak out against the hatred. Do I trust him? Of course not. Do I think that he should be left unchallenged? No. Do I expect to see him publicly recant his message of hate because of what I say? No. His fate is not in my hands. Nor is the fate of Saints, or sinners throughout the world. We choose for ourselves whether to follow the light, or wander into darkness. Phelps is out there in the darkness yelling, “Follow me!” I’m not going. I recommend that you don’t go either, even to scream obscenities at him. It’s not worth the exercise in bad karma, even if you don’t believe in Christ. ## Tris “He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself; and if you gaze too long into the abyss, the abyss will gaze into you.” ~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~ ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/205 "2005-03-16T12:06:57Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Doesn’t “protecting society” go against “judge not”? I mean, if you truly believe that it is wrong to judge others, aren’t you supposed to let the chips fall where they may? Seems like a direct contradiction to christian doctrine. Well I think judge not is a misinterpertation. Other passages “as you judge others, so will you be judged” We have to make judgement calls. There’s no way to avoid it. Hopefully our judgement isn’t about vengence but about justice. I don’t think forgiveness means letting somone walk away with no consequences for their actions. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/206 "2005-03-16T12:52:28Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > He judges in hatred, and far worse, he names that hatred to be the hatred of Jesus. He makes his judgement without compassion, and speaks it with venom, and cruelty. These are the very same emotional responses that he brings to my heart. I reject them there, as well. I will not join him in hatred, even of himself. > > . I shall speak out against the hatred. > > . I recommend that you don’t go either, even to scream obscenities at him. It’s not worth the exercise in bad karma, even if you don’t believe in Christ. > > Tris Years ago I confronted a man who was trying to pick a fight with a smaller man for no reason other than asserting his dominance. He turned his anger on me verbally and started calling me every name he could think of. I had a moment of detachment and understanding. I saw that his anger and need to assert himself was self contained and had nothing at all to do with me. His insults meant nothing. His words were just noise. Somehow that diffused the situation. He saw I wasn’t angry or hateful in return, and I also wouldn’t back down. When someone is really getting to me I try to remember that day. Stand up for what you believe but don’t return anger for anger and spite for spite. Don’t embrace lingering resentment. I’m curious. Has anyone got examples or links of what Phelps said? Is it possible this person was just playing some twisted game by taking extreme positions? ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/207 "2005-03-16T14:05:47Z")
His website, godhatesfags (dot com) has more than enough of his spew to make you sick. It’s not a game, it’s a lifetime crusade of hatred. Tris ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/208 "2005-03-16T19:00:34Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > His website, godhatesfags (dot com) has more than enough of his spew to make you sick. It’s not a game, it’s a lifetime crusade of hatred. > > Tris Couldn’t find the web site although I found some articles about it. I think the name is enough to give me the drift. It’s unfortunate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071.md?page=10)