# What makes someone a Christian? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071 "2005-02-20T22:34:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/81 "2005-02-23T20:06:43Z")
**Siege** --thought of asking my question another way. To me, your statement that your friend the Wiccan is a good Christian…are you delineating characteristics common to both faiths? Or are you stating that anyone (no matter what their belief construct) who exemplifies those characteristics is indeed Christian(despite a different espoused faith)? I think you mean the former. (I hope). ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/82 "2005-02-23T20:09:35Z")
> [@rwjefferson](#): > > I fear you would throw out the baby with the bath water. > > For the time being, let us ignore what you consider speculation, and focus on what we understand to be true about the [spirit](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=spirit). > > Each of our posts contains its own spirit, a glimpse into our own Spirit. This spirit can be strident, forgiving, angry, mean, loving and so on. This spirit is contagious; a post written in an angry spirit is more likely to spread anger than one written in a loving spirit. > > With this understanding, how would you characterize the Spirit of Jesus? > > r~ Well, for starters…your definition of the word “spirit” does not authenticate the existence of “spirits” or a “spirit world”. It is merely a definition. If you’re talking about the 5th or the 8th or the 12th definition, yes I understand that personality is something you can’t quite put your finger on. How would I characterize the personality of Jesus? I think there’s lots to be said for treating your fellow man with respect, to not steal, etc. Do I think he’s worship-able? No. Do I think saying I believe him to be the supernatural son of god will get me to heaven? No. Do I think that if there is anything to christianity that it would be fair to exclude non-believers? No. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/83 "2005-02-23T20:59:52Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > In other words, doing good deeds and loving your fellow man are exclusively Christian traits? (would that they were any religions dominant traits…). > Hope I was clear. Can’t people who hold no religious beliefs do the same thing? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/84 "2005-02-23T21:15:46Z")
> [@rwjefferson](#): > > The problem is that too many “Christians” are not at all civil. Their worldview gives them a “Holier than Thou” attitude. Y’know, I think every thread on religion needs to start with a sticky to the effect of: “Yes, some Christians are assholes. Yes, some Atheists are, too. Everyone here knows that.” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/85 "2005-02-23T21:19:54Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > That’s some pretty empty preaching, there Lib. You sound like you’re reading something off one of those churchfront marquees. Not every man finds love. There are plenty who seek it and don’t find it. There are people who are tormented all their lives – who can barely squeeze common respect out of their fellow man – let alone love! Nice try, though. Well, thanks. 🙂 I agree with you that not every man finds love. After all, it isn’t what many men are searching for. Especially love as I defined it. But I don’t think that either you or I can say what some other man has or has not found or will or will not find. We never know what’s around the corner. Sometimes we don’t even know what 's right in front of us. “What we see depends mainly on what we look for.” John Lubbock ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/86 "2005-02-23T21:21:28Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I hope that cleared things up a bit. Yes, though a lot of it was tangential to the question. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/87 "2005-02-23T21:28:54Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Can’t people who hold no religious beliefs do the same thing? Oh, of course. I did not mean to exclude the non=religious. My point was to highlight the attribution of one faith’s core values to another faith. As if faith #2 didn’t share those values, but express them differently thru worship. have I confused enough people yet? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/88 "2005-02-23T21:56:48Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Well, thanks. 🙂 I agree with you that not every man finds love. After all, it isn’t what many men are searching for. Especially love as I defined it. But I don’t think that either you or I can say what some other man has or has not found or will or will not find. We never know what’s around the corner. Sometimes we don’t even know what 's right in front of us. > > “What we see depends mainly on what we look for.” John Lubbock Again with the cryptic nature of religion. If you don’t know it’s in front of you, then you HAVEN’T FOUND IT. You’re right, we can’t say what another man has or has not found. But you came pretty close to saying it. “But every man who seeks love will find It, and he will know when he finds It that he has found God.” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/89 "2005-02-23T22:20:15Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Again with the cryptic nature of religion. If you don’t know it’s in front of you, then you HAVEN’T FOUND IT. But that was my point. It can’t be too cryptic if you understood it enough to repeat it back. > [@](#): > > You’re right, we can’t say what another man has or has not found. But you came pretty close to saying it. “But every man who seeks love will find It, and he will know when he finds It that he has found God.” He will find whatever he is looking for. It may not be in your lifetime, or mine, or even his own. But, “All who seek find, and to all who knock, the door is opened.” — Jesus ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/90 "2005-02-23T23:11:39Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > That’s in the “Duties” part of the job description, not the “Qualifications” part. And might I note that you are, or should be, expected to tailor your witness to the audience – the task is to show them Christ and let the Holy Spirit work within them, not to “speak your piece” with no thought for the consequences. My boyfriend has, in the past, expressed the sentiment, “If I have to tell you I’m a Christian, I’m clearly doing it wrong.” “Preach the Gospel always. When necessary, use words.” – St. Francis of Assisi ---
**Author:** ![jeffh3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/34f0e0/32.png) [@jeffh3000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeffh3000)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/91 "2005-02-23T23:18:34Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Of course it doesn’t matter what other people think about anyone’s religious self-categorization. > > But, if you think that the most important thing is what Jesus thinks, then he might not even care if you’re a Christian or not. We have no real way of knowing whom he’ll save. He might send some self-professed Christians to hell and save a Satan-worshipping axe murderer. > > So, the main question in the OP is not “let’s find out who is a Christian to see who gets saved”, but a more philosophical one: “how much of the common perception of what a Christian is can we throw out and still call someone a Christian?” > > For me at least, this thread has been enlightening because, for example, from above, some have mentioned that you can believe in the existence of other Gods and still be a Christian, which goes against everything I know about Christianity. > > If I’m not mistaken, at least one person above implied that you can be an atheist and be a Christian, which again flies in the face of what belonging to _any_ religion means. > > Also, something I intended to discuss in this thread but I guess I didn’t word it correctly in the OP is: for those who accept a subset of the Bible as truth, how do they personally reconcile the issues arising from accepting only part of a book that claims to describe the “Truth”? > > That is > > - who decides which subset is correct? > - If one subset is wrong, then how do you know that any part is correct? > If you are the sole arbiter of which parts are correct and which parts are false, > then it means you, personally, know “the Truth”. First to clarify- Well by definition an atheist can not be a christian. What someone commented in another thread was that they practiced the tenets of the quaker faith, although they were atheist (as they did not believe in god), they never specifically claimed to be christian and I see nothing of this nature in this thread. As for polycarp, I think that he was trying to point out that he believed some of the experiences of others from this board of non-christian faith. One can not assume this means that he believes in their gods the way you mean, but rather that he believes in the experiences they have had. Those are 2 different things. Ok, I think that part of your difficulty may be a misunderstanding of what Christianity is or the definition of christian. Keep in mind that it is based on faith and NOT necessarily a quantifiable thing, so it would be extremely difficult for an atheist to understand what it means to be a christian simply because it is outside their realm of experience. First lets start with an official definition of christian (and note that there are multiple definitions: > [@The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language](#): > > Chris·tian (krĭs’chən) > adj. > 1.Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. > 2.Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus’s teachings. > 3.Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike. > 4.Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents. > 5.Showing a loving concern for others; humane. > n. > 1.One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. > 2.One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus. Note that basically being christain means belief in Jesus. It could also mean to include following a religion based on his teaching and life. Note that there are literally 100’s of christian religions. There is no reference in any definition to a specific type of adherence to the bible. Whether or not you are atheist, don’t understand christians, or think that they are all crazy people that you think have become deluded because of a book known as the bible, it still doesn’t change the definition of what christian is. You seem to view christianity as one simple belief system which causes much of your confusion, as it is not. It is made up of 100’s of different faiths that may hold a few core truths, but have little in common. As has been previously stated, rabid, literal belief in the bible and being christian are in no way mutually exclusive. You are under the mistaken belief that ALL christianity emanates solely from the bible and that the bible is the only source reference of jesus or the source of all christian doctrines. Keep in mind that the bible itself is only a partial compilation of documents, many documents are not included for a variety of reasons. There are also many other historical accounts and writings. Furthermore, note that various churches believe in divinely inspired doctrines and documents that have been created after the time of the bible. Even further there are many highly regarded historical writings about Jesus and his teachings that may not be considered divinely inspired, but hold important tenets of various faiths. The beliefs and interpretations of all this much varies as one would expect. This is why there is such a broad definition of “christian,” as it includes all of this and is why opinions vary so much. You gravitate to the bible simply because that is the one document to which you are aware, but it is part of a much larger picture, not to mention that it can be interpreted in may different ways. Thus the expression “even the devil can quote the bible to serve his purposes”. Christians are not just one group of people, but rather a collection of 100’s of different groups(faiths/religions), which raises much of your confusion. There may be also a misunderstanding by sdmb members here on what you are trying to ask, as maybe what you really want to know is something all together different from what they think you are asking, as I for one, get the impression that you are looking for the answer to some completely different question, although I am not sure what it is. ---
**Author:** ![jeffh3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/34f0e0/32.png) [@jeffh3000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeffh3000)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/92 "2005-02-23T23:31:31Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > “I am a Buddhist” > > There, does that make me a Buddhist? 🆒 Christian as a noun: 1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. 2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus. simple as that ---
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/93 "2005-02-23T23:34:37Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Well, for starters…your definition of the word “spirit” does not authenticate the existence of “spirits” or a “spirit world”. It is merely a definition. If you’re talking about the 5th or the 8th or the 12th definition, yes I understand that personality is something you can’t quite put your finger on. > > How would I characterize the personality of Jesus? I think there’s lots to be said for treating your fellow man with respect, to not steal, etc. Do I think he’s worship-able? No. Do I think saying I believe him to be the supernatural son of god will get me to heaven? No. Do I think that if there is anything to christianity that it would be fair to exclude non-believers? No. I Am sorry. I somehow lost you. You did not respond as I would expect or hope. I somehow sense a reluctance of Spirit to follow. I think I understand. I would guess that it is a Spirit that has been wounded by the anti-Christian Spirit that pervades religion and government. Please allow me to do over. (I love that about video games!) For the time being, **let us ignore what you consider speculation, and focus on what we understand to be _true_** about [spirits](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=spirit). **By at least one of the accepted definitions of spirit** , each of our posts contains its own spirit, a glimpse into our own Spirit. This spirit can be strident, forgiving, angry, mean, loving and so on. **This spirit is contagious; a post written in an angry spirit is more likely to spread anger than one written in a loving spirit.** Can we at least agree that bolding creates a (slightly) different spirit in this post? Can we also agree that, within the realm of probability, the spirit of a post plays a factor in the spirit of the response? Do not fear to follow the path of Truth. r~ ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/94 "2005-02-23T23:46:44Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > **Siege** --thought of asking my question another way. > > To me, your statement that your friend the Wiccan is a good Christian…are you delineating characteristics common to both faiths? Or are you stating that anyone (no matter what their belief construct) who exemplifies those characteristics is indeed Christian(despite a different espoused faith)? > I think you mean the former. (I hope). You got it right. When I used the words “Christian-acting”, my intention was to point out that in my book a person can be wonderful human being and not be a Christian. Indeed, it’s been my experience that there isn’t that much relation between the two. I’ve heard some Christians espouse the belief that Wiccans worship the devil in some form. That hasn’t been my experience. I know some Wiccans who’ve done what I consider evil, most notably those responsible for my friend’s divorce; I’ve also seen Christians do evil. I’ve also seen followers of both faiths do a powerful amount of good, just as I’ve seen Atheists do good. I would not presume to tell him or anyone else what his faith is, and I hate it when people try to impose their definition of Christianity on me. Speaking of which, **Kalhoun** , I don’t believe only Christians will be saved or experience heaven. I cannot accept a god so small or so petty that he would condemn someone to hell because she was driven away from Christianity by the actions of Christians while welcoming those who did the damage into heaven. I know people who’ve been driven away from Christianity by the actions of Christians, including, to some extent, that Wiccan friend of mine. If it hadn’t been for that small town church I mentioned earlier, _I_ wouldn’t be a Christian. In fact, I’d probably be among those yelling the loudest about how Christians are hypocrites. If Christ’s atonement was not sufficient for all, how dare I be so arrogant as to say it’s enough for me? I was lucky. I was born in a Christian society and went to a church where people actually showed their Christian love and fellowship. My best friend who was born with handicaps went to a different denomination’s church. At her church, instead of accepting her, they made fun of her and made her cry. Twenty years later, that still makes me angry. Had I gone to that church and been unable to stop it, you’d better believe I’d be among those denouncing Christianity and failing to distinguish between the faith and its followers. (Since there’ve already been some misunderstandings today, let me make it clear that I am not saying anyone in this thread is doing that.) My father wasn’t baptized as a child and, when he reached an age when he would have been baptized (apparently my grandmother was a Northern English Baptist), he’d decided he no longer believed in God and he remains an agnostic to this day. He’s not a Christian, although he made sure all of his children were baptized and he darkens the door of a church occaisionally. I won’t condemn him to Hell for that. Among other things, as I said earlier, it would be the height of arrogance and a very grave sin for me to do that to him or anyone else. As I read the Bible, Christ, Himself, didn’t say only Christians would go to heaven; in fact, He said that some who were convinced they were going were in for a rather nasty shock. Since I have no way of knowing whether or not I’m one of them, how dare I condemn someone else? No, this isn’t standard or conventional Christian belief, but then again, I’ve never been a conventional anything. I also realize there are some people who’d condemn me for that belief. If that’s the case, then so be it. I’ll accept the consequences of my beliefs, no matter how dire. Respectfully, CJ ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/95 "2005-02-24T00:16:19Z")
By the way, **Liberal** , I’m with you. In an e-mail to one of the stronger Fundamentalists who used to hang around here, I once pointed out that her beliefs condemned pretty much everyone I loved to hell, leaving me in heaven with Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and Robert Tilton and, given a choice between spending eternity in a lake of fire or eternity with those three, the lake of fire was looking kind of good! :eek: She didn’t get it, of course. CJ ---
**Author:** ![rwjefferson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@rwjefferson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rwjefferson)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/96 "2005-02-24T00:19:51Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Y’know, I think every thread on religion needs to start with a sticky to the effect of: “Yes, some Christians are assholes. Yes, some Atheists are, too. Everyone here knows that.” Assholes I can tolerate. It is the anti-Christian Tyrants masquerading as “Christians” that I can not. r~ ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/97 "2005-02-24T01:00:21Z")
> [@jeffh3000](#): > > Well by definition an atheist can not be a christian. I don’t see where the definition you cite says that; elucidate, please. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/98 "2005-02-24T01:15:58Z")
This quotation may be of interest in continuing this discussion: > [@Y'shua bar Miriam](#): > > “What do you think? A man had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work in the vineyard today.’ The boy answered, ‘I will not.’ But later he had a change of heart and went. The father went to the other son and said the same thing. This boy answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but did not go. Which of the two did his father’s will?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, tax collectors and prostitutes will go ahead of you into the kingdom of God! For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him. But the tax collectors and prostitutes believed him. Although you saw this, you did not later change your minds and believe him.” (Matthew 21:28-32, NET) ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/99 "2005-02-24T02:19:14Z")
Ooh! A huge post and it got eaten! Gack! suffice it to say, **Siege** that you have reassured me–thank you! The rest will wait for another day! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jeffh3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/34f0e0/32.png) [@jeffh3000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeffh3000)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071/100 "2005-02-24T06:53:11Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > I don’t see where the definition you cite says that; elucidate, please. Where is your confusion? I am not sure exactly what you are asking. The definition I cited had nothing to do with the definition of atheism The definition of atheism is: n. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. Disbelief in the doctrines of christianity. The doctrine that there is no God or gods. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-someone-a-christian/291071.md?page=6)