# What makes the Dem left "far left," "ultra-left," etc.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 25, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051 "2019-04-25T20:11:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/1 "2019-04-25T20:11:32Z")
From the “Biden’s In” thread: > [@Joe Biden's in](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-bidens-in/833042/7): > > I think the far-left wing of the party has taken over more than Joe realizes, and he’s positioned himself as too much of a moderate to win the nomination. > [@Joe Biden's in](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-bidens-in/833042/10): > > Awesome, fantastic news. 😉 > > We FINALLY! have a centrist candidate that has a chance of winning. > > Hot damn, finally a Democrat that isn’t uktra left wing. 😃 > [@Joe Biden's in](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-bidens-in/833042/15): > > That’s assuming the ultra left doesn’t force Biden to shift from the center. He’s already backpedaling on the Anita Hill hearings 25 years ago. Clearly both of you gentlemen find the “far left” or “ultra left” to be unacceptably far left. But you think they’ve gotten big enough to have “taken over” or to potentially “force Biden to shift from the center.” So this isn’t just AOC, Ilhan Omar, and one or two others we’re talking about. So who are these people, and what shared policy positions or other shared tendencies make this “far/ultra left” so unacceptable to you folks? ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/2 "2019-04-25T20:47:57Z")
Beats me. Have the Democrats, on the whole, drifted any further to the left than Republicans have to the right? To my way of thinking - nope. I tend to go with Democratic ideas, almost by default (very few statements/ideas/proposals that Republicans/conservatives come out with these days do I agree with. VERY few). Does that make me a “radical Leftist”? Not in MY book, it doesn’t! As far as I’m concerned I’m simply a fair-minded individual who doesn’t like the idea of having a person as morally and ethically bankrupt in the W.H. as we do now. But I guess that makes me a “villain” to those on the “Right” these days. So sad. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/3 "2019-04-25T20:52:31Z")
You can start with the 98 members of [Congressional Progressive Caucus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Progressive_Caucus) > [@](#): > > The CPC advocates “universal access to affordable, high quality healthcare” (universal healthcare or single-payer healthcare), fair trade agreements, living wage laws, the right of all workers to organize into labor unions and engage in collective bargaining, the abolition of the USA PATRIOT Act, the legalization of same-sex marriage, U.S. participation in international treaties such as the climate change related Kyoto Accords, responsible reductions in profligate military expenditure, strict campaign finance reform laws, a crackdown on corporate welfare and influence, an increase in income tax rates on upper-middle and upper class households, tax cuts for the poor and an increase in welfare spending by the federal government and also look at the [Democratic Socialist of America](https://www.dsausa.org/) which has been very active at the state and local level. > [@](#): > > The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is the largest socialist organization in the United States. We believe that working people should run both the economy and society democratically to meet human needs, not to make profits for a few. We are a political and activist organization, not a party; through campus and community-based chapters, DSA members use a variety of tactics, from legislative to direct action, to fight for reforms that empower working people. Neither of these groups could be considered ultra left, **HurricaneDitka’s** and **aceplace57’s** pearl clutching notwithstanding. mc ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/4 "2019-04-25T21:04:00Z")
In Canada, they are called Liberals. I am floored to learn I live in a far-left state under the profligate government of the Prime Minister and his socialist tax collectors! ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/5 "2019-04-25T21:04:22Z")
I’m not sure the people who use this phrase have a precise definition in mind. Indeed, precision of thought doesn’t seem to be a strong point with most of them. Here’s what I’ve gleaned: The people who get labeled thusly seem to be those who are concerned with racial justice or gender issues, particularly those who have the temerity to actually be minorities or women. Anyone under fifty is considered an ultra-leftist until proven otherwise. Anyone who believes that racially based police brutality exists in this country is definitely an ultra-leftist. The existence of transgender people is a myth spread by ultra-leftists in order to raise your taxes. Anyone proposing policies that might benefit the working and middle classes, such as increased access to education or health care. Do you question whether oil companies have the best interests of the nation at heart? If so, you are probably part of the lunatic fringe far left!! Perhaps it could be summed up by saying that an ultra-leftist is any Democrat who says anything that would make Archie Bunker uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/6 "2019-04-25T21:13:39Z")
And of course it goes without saying that anyone who has ever, at any time in the past, supported any gun control legislation whatsoever is straight from the ninth circle of ultra-left hell. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/7 "2019-04-25T22:04:35Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > From the “Biden’s In” thread: > > Clearly both of you gentlemen find the “far left” or “ultra left” to be unacceptably far left. > > But you think they’ve gotten big enough to have “taken over” or to potentially “force Biden to shift from the center.” So this isn’t just AOC, Ilhan Omar, and one or two others we’re talking about. > > So who are these people, and what shared policy positions or other shared tendencies make this “far/ultra left” so unacceptable to you folks? I don’t know that there’s one set of “shared policy positions” that I’d say describes the “far left”. They’ve got varied interests and don’t always agree. But I can give you some examples: 1. The people advocating for reparations for blacks are, IMHO, part of the far left wing of the Democratic Party. It’s also a position [supported by 26% of Americans](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-americans-think-about-reparations-and-other-race-related-questions/), which makes it a pretty sizable portion of the Democratic Party (I don’t think there’s much of an argument to be made that many of the reparations-advocates are Republicans) 2. Likewise, “Abolish ICE” seems like a far left proposal to me, and yet, it is [supported by about a quarter of the population](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/11/immigration-ice-abolish-poll-708703). 3. The people advocating for a ban on civilian handgun ownership are part of the far-Left IMHO. Again, it’s a position [supported by 28% of the population](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx). Those obviously aren’t all the exact same people. Some of the “abolish ICE” crowd might think handguns are OK, someone who wants to ban handguns might think reparations are nuts, etc. but in general I don’t have any difficulty ascribing all three positions a “far left” location on our political spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/8 "2019-04-25T22:14:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > , , , in general I don’t have any difficulty ascribing all three positions a “far left” location on **our** political spectrum. (emphasis added). I am glad you qualified it as an American idiosyncrasy because for most of the liberal democracies that the US ostensibly supports, most such positions are close to, if not at, the centre. Do you care that the US is no longer seen as the Leader of the Free World? Sure, I know it’s just an old trope but it’s been around a long time for a reason. Individual freedom as embodied in the _aspirations_ of the US Constitution is something that requires global leadership. Yet you seem to see these hopes as nothing more than a far-left shibboleth. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/9 "2019-04-25T22:34:33Z")
Seriously, Ditka’s answer actually makes sense. The far left, by definition, are the people who are to the left of almost everyone else, who hold positions that only a small minority agree with. Of course, by that definition it’s impossible for the “far left” to be taking over the Democratic Party, since if they are numerous enough to do so, they can’t be a small minority. So, I guess it’s used as a pejorative for people who hold views that \*used \* to be fringe positions, but are growing popular enough to be mainstream. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/10 "2019-04-25T22:41:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know that there’s one set of “shared policy positions” that I’d say describes the “far left”. They’ve got varied interests and don’t always agree. But I can give you some examples: > > 1. The people advocating for reparations for blacks are, IMHO, part of the far left wing of the Democratic Party. It’s also a position [supported by 26% of Americans](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-americans-think-about-reparations-and-other-race-related-questions/), which makes it a pretty sizable portion of the Democratic Party (I don’t think there’s much of an argument to be made that many of the reparations-advocates are Republicans) > > 2. Likewise, “Abolish ICE” seems like a far left proposal to me, and yet, it is [supported by about a quarter of the population](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/11/immigration-ice-abolish-poll-708703). > > 3. The people advocating for a ban on civilian handgun ownership are part of the far-Left IMHO. Again, it’s a position [supported by 28% of the population](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx). > > Those obviously aren’t all the exact same people. Some of the “abolish ICE” crowd might think handguns are OK, someone who wants to ban handguns might think reparations are nuts, etc. but in general I don’t have any difficulty ascribing all three positions a “far left” location on our political spectrum. I consider myself to be left of center, but not far left. I was actually going to guess that this would be the answer given by someone on the right. It’s more a matter which policy positions the far left politicians focus on rather than holding wildly divergent views compared to someone who is moderately left of center. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/11 "2019-04-26T13:06:17Z")
The green new deal calls for the state commandeering resources on a scale never before seen - and we aren’t in recession! Instead of a fascist-lite ACA, Democrats call for nationalization of health insurance. A leading presidential candidate and the most popular congresswoman support the policy proposals of MMT. Basically, there should be no worry of paying for any proposal, just print money. They still like taxes for punitive purposes though. Culturally, positions that Barack Obama (and every major primary opponent of his) held have become the positions of “reactionary right wingers”. Yes, to deny a move leftward in the Democratic party is a wishful denial. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/12 "2019-04-26T13:16:51Z")
Also “white” male presidential candidates have been forced to debase themselves in regards to a theory of “white privilege” that would be a Maoists dream. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/13 "2019-04-26T13:56:14Z")
The far left is just as radical and dangerous as the far right. Imho The country needs to be governed by centrists. People that are willing to compromise on some issues and work with the other party. That worked for most of the 20th century. There were certainly strong differences of opinion between the partys. Some issues never got resolved. But, a lot of bipartisan legislation did pass. It’s hard to define the far left. Certainly a Socialist agenda and the Green movement are part of it. A liberal doesn’t have to be that far to the left. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/14 "2019-04-26T14:08:44Z")
Only in the U.S. is a more efficient, more effective national health care system considered a “far left” concept. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/15 "2019-04-26T14:29:01Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The far left is just as radical and dangerous as the far right. Imho > > The country needs to be governed by centrists. People that are willing to compromise on some issues and work with the other party. This tells us that you draw a line, but it doesn’t tell us where that line is drawn. Name some prominent Centrists that you would be willing to support politically. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/16 "2019-04-26T14:58:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka > > 1. The people advocating for reparations for blacks are, IMHO, part of the far left wing of the Democratic Party. It’s also a position supported by 26% of Americans, which makes it a pretty sizable portion of the Democratic Party (I don’t think there’s much of an argument to be made that many of the reparations-advocates are Republicans) > > 2. Likewise, “Abolish ICE” seems like a far left proposal to me, and yet, it is supported by about a quarter of the population. > [@KarlGauss](#): > > I am glad you qualified it as an American idiosyncrasy because for most of the liberal democracies that the US ostensibly supports, most such positions are close to, if not at, the centre. Out of curiosity, which liberal democracies have made reparations, as in cash payments to the descendants of slaves, for the African slave trade? Also, which liberal democracies, outside of some minnows that don’t have airports, don’t have agencies that enforce border controls? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/17 "2019-04-26T15:08:31Z")
Kirsten Gillibrand, Kamala Harris are two that I like. They aren’t traditional Democrats but are closer than Elizabeth Warren. I’m still studying Cory Booker. There aren’t any Centrists anymore. Both parties expect absolute loyalty. Reaching across the aisle gets people in trouble. All three have shifted further left since joining the Presidential election. That’s true of all the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/18 "2019-04-26T15:16:42Z")
Retired Senator Joe Lieberman is trying to mobilize the center. I can only hope his organization No Labels can make a difference. [https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/470908002](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/470908002) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/19 "2019-04-26T15:27:24Z")
Far left, or ultra-left is anything that is to the political left of **ME** So, for example, if I believe that minimum wages should be abolished, healthcare is a commodity best served by a free market, and that being gay is a choice that is designed to weaken and destroy our society… Then it logically follows that the far left, radical cray-cray segment are those people who believe in a minimum wage policy, any government involvement in health care, and any gay rights whatsoever. They are far left radical insane people. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051/20 "2019-04-26T15:34:49Z")
The fact that far left people exist and are not Republicans automatically makes them Democrats. The fact that they are Democrats automatically makes all Democrats just like them because every group is defined and indistinguishable from its worst elements. (See: Muslims, immigrants, etc.) Republican “logic” 101. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-makes-the-dem-left-far-left-ultra-left-etc/833051.md?page=2)