# What manner of cardinal is this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 24, 2007, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299 "2007-01-24T20:13:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/1 "2007-01-24T20:13:58Z")
Normally I’ve seen cardinals about blue jay size and shape. But recently I’ve seen some tiny little cardinals, short and squat, about sparrow size and shape visiting our birdfeeder. They must be cardinals, they’re too red to be bishops. What are they? (I’m in the Northeast US) (Oh look, there’s the female, also tiny but not as gaudy as the male is. Guys are just way to into their looks.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/2 "2007-01-24T20:15:34Z")
[House Finch](http://www.college.emory.edu/culpeper/GOUZOULES/site/images/birds/bpics/house_finch.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/3 "2007-01-24T20:37:13Z")
Or perhaps [Purple Finch](http://www.lanephotography.com/purple%20finch/purple%20finch%20-%2005.jpg)? ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/4 "2007-01-24T21:15:57Z")
Hmmm…no, it’s not a house finch. It’s crested just like a cardinal. It looks a bit more like the purple finch (boy does that thing look pissed off) but it’s way more red. We’re talking RED. Commie Red. Wave him in the Mayday parade red. And the female looks just like a female cardinal; dumure tan with an orange mowhalk. (haven’t ckecked her for peircings.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/5 "2007-01-24T21:24:25Z")
If your description is accurate, then it’s not a North American bird, unless you actually do have a population of pygmy Cardinals there. There are no small, bright-red crested birds that normally occur in your area. Take a photo and submit it as a Rare Bird Report. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/6 "2007-01-24T22:53:15Z")
I’ve seen one cardinal around my feeder and he’s nowhere near as big as a bluejay. Blue jays are listed as 10-12" and Cardinals as 7.5-9". Even that seems big for what I saw, but he definitely had the tufted head and all-red body in the cardinal shape. Here’s a New England list. [http://www.nenature.com/birds.htm](http://www.nenature.com/birds.htm) What I saw was more like the size and shape of the [tufted titmouse](http://www.nenature.com/TuftedTitmouse.htm), but all red. I got a crappy picture of him so I will see if I can post it tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/7 "2007-01-25T12:38:42Z")
Here’s what I saw: [guy](http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k140/gigisdmb/?action=view¤t=IMG_04411.jpg) [same guy](http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k140/gigisdmb/?action=view¤t=IMG_04401.jpg) I guess he is the right size for a cardinal, bu he was definitely smaller than the bluejays I’ve seen around here. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/8 "2007-01-25T12:57:15Z")
[QUOTE=gigi] Here’s what I saw: [guy](http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k140/gigisdmb/?action=view¤t=IMG_04411.jpg) [same guy](http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k140/gigisdmb/?action=view¤t=IMG_04401.jpg) I guess he is the right size for a cardinal, bu he was definitely smaller than the bluejays I’ve seen around here. [/QUOTE] That’s definitely a cardinal. Bluejays are quite a bit larger than cardinals, at least all of the ones I’ve seen have been. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/9 "2007-01-25T13:32:37Z")
Yeah, that’s definitely a cardinal. Which brings up a question for the OP: **betenoir** , are you just overestimating what size you expect the cardinal to be? Cardinals are noticably smaller than blue jays, in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/10 "2007-01-25T13:58:34Z")
Yes, I agree it’s a Cardinal. Cardinals (8.75 inches bill tip to tail tip) are substantially smaller than Blue Jays (11 in.) but much larger than Titmice (6.5 in.). Accurate size estimates of birds can be quite difficult without a lot of experience. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/11 "2007-01-25T15:45:05Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] Accurate size estimates of birds can be quite difficult without a lot of experience. [/QUOTE] Tell me about it. Even with the trusty cinderblock I can only get it down to “huge” and “tiny”. Or measurements in relation to the downy woodpecker (his name is Robert) who is the most regular visitor. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/12 "2007-01-25T16:41:47Z")
Is this tanager what you saw? [Scarlet Tanager - Photos, facts, and identification tips](http://www.nenature.com/ScarletTanager.htm) If you hear it singing \*Why Must I Be A Tanager In Love?, \* you’ll know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/13 "2007-01-25T16:53:10Z")
Sure looks like a cardinal to me. I suppose a cedar waxwing could look a little like a cardinal. But the bird in your pictures couldn’t be anything else but a cardinal. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/14 "2007-01-25T18:34:22Z")
Hijack: Is there a good online bird ID site? So far the birds at my feeder\* have been easy (male and female cardinal, juncos, blue jay, red headed woodpecker), but I’d like a site in case something more unusual appears. Brian \*sadly, not very popular ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/15 "2007-01-25T19:35:26Z")
[QUOTE=zut] Yeah, that’s definitely a cardinal. Which brings up a question for the OP: **betenoir** , are you just overestimating what size you expect the cardinal to be? Cardinals are noticably smaller than blue jays, in my experience. [/QUOTE] Wel I dunno. They might not be quite as big as a blue jay but they’re close…and long and pointy. This is a tiny little plump sparrow size/shaped little thing. I’ve seen cardinals all my life. As does in fact look a lot like the Tanager, but the wings aren’t that black. And it’s crested, to the point of arrogence. And N9IWP of couse youre popular. Once you’ve made friend with a junco you have a friend for lfe. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/16 "2007-01-25T20:51:11Z")
[QUOTE=N9IWP] Hijack: Is there a good online bird ID site? So far the birds at my feeder\* have been easy (male and female cardinal, juncos, blue jay, red headed woodpecker), but I’d like a site in case something more unusual appears. [/QUOTE] Juncos! I’m jealous. 🙂 What time do you watch? My friend tells me that morning and dusk are the most popular, so since I’m at work I only see them on weekends. One time at 8:30 the feeder was atwitter. On-line I’ve had trouble finding good resources (\*\*Colibri \*\* will know better), but I did get a couple of field guides for Christmas. The trouble is they cover all of North America so I end up thinking I have some Alaskan bird in my backyard! Sorry to hijack, but can someone help with IDing [these?](http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k140/gigisdmb/?action=view¤t=IMG_04391.jpg) They are bigger than the others that come by, and I’ve only seen them that once when they all descended on some freshly-stren corn bits. Sorry for the crappy photo; they seem to be a tweedy kind of brown/black/tan. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/17 "2007-01-25T20:56:27Z")
[QUOTE=betenoir] As does in fact look a lot like the Tanager, but the wings aren’t that black. And it’s crested, to the point of arrogence. [/QUOTE] Tanagers are migratory anyway; it’s very unlikely one would be hanging around the northern US in January. In fact, Scarlets don’t even hang around in Panama - they pass through on their way to South America, where they winter. [QUOTE=gigi] Sorry to hijack, but can someone help with IDing these? They are bigger than the others that come by, and I’ve only seen them that once when they all descended on some freshly-stren corn bits. Sorry for the crappy photo; they seem to be a tweedy kind of brown/black/tan. [/QUOTE] Those are Mourning Doves. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/18 "2007-01-25T21:00:22Z")
PS. I am unclear regarding whether **betenoir** and **gigi** are lreferring to the same birds or not. **Betenoir** , are the pictures **gigi** posted the same as the birds you are seeing, or are they something else? If the latter, can you provide pictures or your birds? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/19 "2007-01-25T21:12:15Z")
The only all-red bird I’ve seen besides the cardinal is the [Summer Tanager](http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Summer_Tanager_dtl.html), but I don’t think you’d have one of those in its summer plumage in the Northeast US in the middle of winter. I bet it was a cardinal. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299/20 "2007-01-25T21:17:48Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] Those are Mourning Doves. [/QUOTE] Are there areas of the US where the Mourning Dove isn’t ubiquitous? I’m surprised that anyone who has even a passing interest in birds (such as gigi) would not know one. They’re as common around here as the Rock Pigeons are in big cities. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-manner-of-cardinal-is-this/389299.md?page=2)