# What military hardware can be used without specialized training? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [March 6, 2022, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545 "2022-03-06T01:37:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545/21 "2022-03-06T20:59:51Z")
Poland has, according to wiki, 586 T-72M1 and T-72M1Ds in use. They also have a variety of other models, but not sure what condition those are in. Hungry has a bunch, but they were mothballed in 2009, so no idea what sort of shape those are in. The US supposedly has 90 (I assume purchased to evaluate) but gods know what sort of shape those are in (they are probably full of holes on some tank range somewhere). Those are the only countries on the list I’m looking at that might donate to the cause. India has nearly 2000 of the things, but zero chance they would give any to Ukraine. Iraq has a bunch as well, but not only is there very little chance they would give any to Ukraine but I don’t even know if they are still in fighting shape. ETA: The Czech Republic also has over 500, with 30 having been modernized to the T-72M4CZ model and were only put in storage in 2016…so, probably still in relatively decent shape. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545/22 "2022-03-06T21:08:32Z")
[quote=“XT, post:21, topic:960545, full:true”] The US supposedly has 90 (I assume purchased to evaluate) but gods know what sort of shape those are in (they are probably full of holes on some tank range somewhere). [/quote] I won’t presume to give an exact number but I would say a significant percentage of those are demilitarized and sitting out on static display or at some division museum. I’ve seen quite a few on multiple army bases. They weren’t purchased, they were spoils of war from Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545/23 "2022-03-06T23:13:09Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I know Germany had a bunch of East German T-72s after the unification but I have no idea what they did with them. I know I wouldn’t want to fight in a tank that was mothballed for 30 years. I wouldn’t wish having to use a T-72 on my worst enemy. You might as well be driving around a battlefield in a Volkswagen packed with gunpowder and gasoline. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545/24 "2022-03-06T23:16:32Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I know I wouldn’t want to fight in a tank that was mothballed for 30 years. sorry to say - but you just buried your potential career as russian general! ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545/25 "2022-03-06T23:51:15Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You’d need not only to train the pilots, but set up the logistics and train the flight crews. And the mechanics. Especially the mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545/26 "2022-03-07T00:44:23Z")
Just a bit of trivia, and obviously they haven’t been sitting in storage the whole time and have been modernized, but the last T-64 rolled off the production line in 1987, making the youngest of Ukraine’s primary main battle tanks at least 35 years old. The T-72s and T-80s that they have might be a couple of years younger, but they _were_ sitting in storage from a little bit after the fall of the Soviet Union until 2015 when Ukraine began reactivating after fighting started in the Donbas. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545/27 "2022-03-07T00:51:43Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I wouldn’t wish having to use a T-72 on my worst enemy. You might as well be driving around a battlefield in a Volkswagen packed with gunpowder and gasoline. On the bright side, at least it’s not a Pinto… ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545/28 "2022-03-08T14:17:15Z")
M-79 40mm grenade launchers are not bad weapons and are very easy to use. (Can you fire a single shot shotgun? You can load and fire an M-79.) I’m guessing that the popularity of the M-203 version (underslung version) means that the US has quite a few M-79s warehoused somewhere. With a decent assortment of ammo types (explosive, flechette, buckshot, etc.), these might be good thing to send to otherwise untrained personnel. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545/29 "2022-03-08T20:54:24Z")
I have no idea if the US keeps any stores of these. And I was in the National Guard where we had grease guns and trench shotguns in our arms room for decades after they were last used. If they are relying on M78s to stop armored columns they are in big trouble. It basically lobs a hand grenade at assault rifle range. It’s for close combat primarily against personnel. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545/30 "2022-03-08T21:01:14Z")
how abouth sending a boatload full of John Deere trackors over there? ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545/31 "2022-03-08T22:16:03Z")
Yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of the OP’s question. As a piece of military hardware, an M-79 is pretty simple to use, even if it is less effective against heavy armor. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545/32 "2022-03-08T22:44:44Z")
And it’s not like the Russians are entirely in tanks. There’s got to be some infantry in there, too, and grenade launchers work fine against them. They might even work against fuel trucks. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545/33 "2022-03-08T22:50:38Z")
I saw a report earlier that claimed Russia started this war with only 4000 fuel trucks in its entire inventory. If that’s true, it’s an insanely low number of things. For context, the US has well over 100k of this type of vehicle in our inventory. IIRC, the US deployed something like 20k of them in the Iraqi invasion alone. So, targeting these things is definitely a priority…and I think a grenade launcher would work fine against one (they are, IIRC, only lightly armored if at all). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545/34 "2022-03-09T16:20:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And it’s not like the Russians are entirely in tanks. There’s got to be some infantry in there, too, and grenade launchers work fine against them. They might even work against fuel trucks. The key is to get near enough to them to be effective while not having it be a suicide mission. I did read an article out of Britain today that said Ukraine is turning down volunteers that don’t have previous military experience. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-military-hardware-can-be-used-without-specialized-training/960545.md?page=1)