# What models of revolvers used rimfire cartridges between 1850 and 1870? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 9, 2011, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-models-of-revolvers-used-rimfire-cartridges-between-1850-and-1870/592057 "2011-08-09T10:27:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TheUnfortunateNews](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@TheUnfortunateNews](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheUnfortunateNews)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-models-of-revolvers-used-rimfire-cartridges-between-1850-and-1870/592057/1 "2011-08-09T10:27:23Z")
Hi, I’m a first time poster on this forum although I have been conversing with user Martini Enfield previously. Anyhow, I am currently engaged in a project that calls for a degree of historical accuracy. **My question is whether anyone can produce a few examples of revolver pistols that used rimfire cartridges and was available between 1850 and 1870.** My research has allowed me plenty of insight into percussion cap revolvers in this period but unfortunately information on rimfire weapons is harder to accrue. Information about these pistols or where I can find out about these pistols would be very much appreciated. Also, this is an outstanding board. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-models-of-revolvers-used-rimfire-cartridges-between-1850-and-1870/592057/2 "2011-08-09T12:21:19Z")
Well, the first rimfire cartridge, the .22 Flobert, came on the market around 1845, while Berdan and Boxer patented their respective centerfire primers in 1866, so it’s quite possible that there were revolvers chambered for some rimfire cartridge. According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimfire#History), the successor to the .22 Flobert (the .22 Short) was developed for the first S&W revolver in 1857. But really, if you want reliable facts about old cartridges, I’d really recommend the book “[Cartridges of the world](http://www.amazon.com/Cartridges-World-Complete-Illustrated-Reference/dp/0896899365/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312892502&sr=8-1)”. It’s almost universally accurate, although I’ve seen one or two minor errors there. And it’s just a little bit US-centric… ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-models-of-revolvers-used-rimfire-cartridges-between-1850-and-1870/592057/3 "2011-08-09T12:36:14Z")
(Missed the edit window) Another couple of links: [The beginning of the S&W company](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson#Beginning) [32 rimfire Smith and Wesson No. 2](http://www.hackman-adams.com/guns/32S&WNo2.htm) (1861-1874) The biggest drawback with any rimfire cartridge is that it can’t be reloaded. That translates to higher ammo costs and poorer availability of ammo compared to both percussion and centerfire guns. I’d guess that that would be a major drawback in places like the American frontier in the mid-1800s. So I’m not surprised that percussion revolvers were more popular than rimfire revolvers and that centerfire cartridges quickly took over the market after the invention of the centerfire primer ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-models-of-revolvers-used-rimfire-cartridges-between-1850-and-1870/592057/4 "2011-08-09T12:49:48Z")
And after some more googling: > [@](#): > > Incidentally, in 1868 Remington contracted with Smith & Wesson in an agreement which allowed Remington to produce cartridge conversions under the Rollin White patent. These were the first LEGAL cartridge conversions, taking the .46 Short Rimfire cartridge. > **[Interesting .44 History......](https://smith-wessonforum.com/threads/interesting-44-history.83661/)** > > Reading an article form an old publication recently, by Roy Jinks, concerning the first S&W .44s: > > Smith & Wesson had produced a solid frame revolver in .44 Henry Rimfire. The gun was a single action looking very much like the Model No. 1... > [@](#): > > In 1868, Remington began offering cartridge conversions of the revolver in .46 Rimfire. Remington paid a royalty fee to Smith & Wesson, owners of the Rollin White patent (#12,648, April 3, 1855) on bored-through revolver cylinders for metallic cartridge use. The Remington Army cartridge-conversions were the first large-caliber cartridge revolvers available, beating even Smith & Wesson’s .44 American to market by nearly two years. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_1858) ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-models-of-revolvers-used-rimfire-cartridges-between-1850-and-1870/592057/5 "2011-08-13T00:42:19Z")
One avenue that might yield more useful results for you would be [Pinfire cartridges](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinfire), which were, it seems, generally lower-powered than cap & ball or centre-fire firearms (for the most part) and seemed to fill the niche for, well, handguns that weren’t big and powerful. The Lefaucheaux Model 1858 is probably the best known of these. One of the other things you asked about in a PM was firearms during the Australian Gold-rush era. Rather than bore you (and everyone else) with a long post here on the subject, I found this useful site from the Museum of Victoria on [“Firearms in Goldrush Victoria, 1850s”](http://museumvictoria.com.au/collections/themes/2810/firearms-in-gold-rush-victoria-1850s). While people like to think of all the miners and prospectors carrying Colt and Adams or Webley percussion-cap revolvers, the reality is those things were quite expensive- some of the prices from then that I’ve turned up suggest a new Colt Model 1851 Navy sold (in the US) for around US$15-$20 in the 1860s, which works out at about AUD$200-$300 in modern currency when compared against the CPI (ie, a comparison of what other goods at the time cost), but closer to $2000 in “actual cost” when compared against what the average (ie unskilled) person actually earned back then. As a result, a lot of the miners were carrying (cheaper) single-shot flintlock and percussion-cap pistols, but there were indeed a lot of “modern” revolvers around as well. It goes without saying that there were a great deal of muskets and percussion shotguns around at the time, too- they were important for hunting (no supermarkets there in the 1860s!). Most of the rifles that are still around nowadays (at least the one’s I’ve seen) are either the “Trade Pattern” (civilian sale) version of military rifles- 1853 Enfield Rifle-muskets, Snider-Enfield rifles, and so on- or quality hunting rifles and shotguns made by well-known firms that wouldn’t have been especially cheap but have survived to the modern day because they were well made and seen as worth hanging on to. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-models-of-revolvers-used-rimfire-cartridges-between-1850-and-1870/592057/6 "2011-08-13T01:38:10Z")
The Colt Cloverleaf House pistol was chambered for the .41 rimfire. First made in 1871 or perhaps 1870. [http://www.yankeegunnuts.com/2011/03/15/made-in-connecticut-colts-house-pistol/](http://www.yankeegunnuts.com/2011/03/15/made-in-connecticut-colts-house-pistol/) ---
**Author:** ![Gbro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Gbro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gbro)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-models-of-revolvers-used-rimfire-cartridges-between-1850-and-1870/592057/7 "2011-08-13T23:47:50Z")
1. the Flobert BB-cap 1845 Bulleted Breech Cap 2. .22 CB Cap cira 1888 Conical Bullet Cap 3. .22 Short 1857 S&W !st Modle 4. .22 Long cira 1871 (Long case short bullet) 5. .22 LR cira 1887 6. .22 WMR 7. .17 HMR 8. 5mm Rem Rimfire Mag. Obsolete rifle but T\C chambered the contender for it 9. .25 Short (AKA Bacon & Bliss) cira 1860 developed for the F. D. Bliss Revolver 10. .30 Short Cira 1860 One handgun was the Sharps four barrel. 11. .30 Long cira 1873 Colt, Standard XL and Sharps handguns 12. 32 Extra Short Cira 1871 for Remington Magazine pistol and others 13. 32 Short S&W New model 1-1/2 and 2 14 .32 Long Cira 1861 S&W 2nd model 14. .32 Long Rifle Cira 1900 mostly a rifle, but also handguns chamber for it. 15. .38 Short Cira 1865 (Remington New Model Revolver 16. .38 Long Cira 1867 Colt and Forehand & Wadsworth Revolvers 17. .41 Short (Derringer) Cira 1861 National Arms Co. Breech loading Derringer (note 2 R’s) 18. .41 Long Cira 1873 Colt New line Revolvers 19. .44 Short Cira 1870 Best noted for the Hammond Bulldog pistol 20. .44 Henry Flat Cira 1860 Colt revolvers 21. 46 Short Cira 1878 Remington SAA 22. .50 Remington Navey Cira 1865 Remington Navy pistol I only included Cartridges from the 11th edition of C of the W where handgun use was indicated in the write-up. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-models-of-revolvers-used-rimfire-cartridges-between-1850-and-1870/592057/8 "2011-08-14T09:35:20Z")
> [@Gbro](#): > > 1. .22 Long cira 1871 (Long case short bullet) > 2. .22 Long cira 1871 (Long case short bullet) > 3. .22 LR cira 1887 > 4. .22 WMR > 5. .17 HMR > 6. 5mm Rem Rimfire Mag. Obsolete rifle but T\C chambered the contender for it Good write-up, but just to nitpick: The OP asked for rimfire cartridge pistols available between 1850 and 1870. The T/C Contender was released in the late 1900s, and neither the .22 Long, LR or WMR or the .17 HMR were invented before 1870. ---
**Author:** ![Gbro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Gbro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gbro)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-models-of-revolvers-used-rimfire-cartridges-between-1850-and-1870/592057/9 "2011-08-15T04:39:27Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > Good write-up, but just to nitpick: The OP asked for rimfire cartridge pistols available between 1850 and 1870. The T/C Contender was released in the late 1900s, and neither the .22 Long, LR or WMR or the .17 HMR were invented before 1870. Being a parent I do not always get exactly what I want either. 😉 I confess that I was not paying any attention to that time slot. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TheUnfortunateNews](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@TheUnfortunateNews](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheUnfortunateNews)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-models-of-revolvers-used-rimfire-cartridges-between-1850-and-1870/592057/10 "2011-08-16T16:00:10Z")
Thank you all so much for your help. I’ll be sure to hang around and ensure that I will contribute where I can to this board in the future.