# What modern political allegiance is indicated by showing Napoleon's flag nowadays? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 24, 2021, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-modern-political-allegiance-is-indicated-by-showing-napoleons-flag-nowadays/942770 "2021-05-24T01:58:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-modern-political-allegiance-is-indicated-by-showing-napoleons-flag-nowadays/942770/1 "2021-05-24T01:58:27Z")
A friend posted this from my old neighborhood in San [Random Flag - Album on Imgur](http://imgur.com/a/96oJ49z) Google tells me this flag is the shield of Napoleon Bonaparte: > **[File:Shield Napoleon.svg](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shield_Napoleon.svg?hcb=1)** > > Original file ‎(SVG file, nominally 569 × 662 pixels, file size: 290 KB) > Derivative works of this file: > Click on a date/time to view the file as it appeared at that time. > You cannot overwrite this file. Assuming this is not a random Napoleonic war buff very proud of his hand painted Grand Armee figurines (or some obscure sporting connection). What modern political affiliation would lead someone to display that flag in 21st century San Francisco? I mean traditionally being pro-Napoleon was associated with liberal (or at least small r republican) political views. But I’ve not heard of that in more recent times. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-modern-political-allegiance-is-indicated-by-showing-napoleons-flag-nowadays/942770/2 "2021-05-24T02:13:58Z")
Longs for the glory days of France, or wishes he were Emperor? I’m thinking of flying this one below my Kentucky flag. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Coa_Transylvania_Country_History_v3.svg/1200px-Coa_Transylvania_Country_History_v3.svg.png) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Coa_Transylvania_Country_History_v3.svg/1200px-Coa_Transylvania_Country_History_v3.svg.png) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-modern-political-allegiance-is-indicated-by-showing-napoleons-flag-nowadays/942770/3 "2021-05-24T02:17:42Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > What modern political affiliation would lead someone to display that flag in 21st century San Francisco? Could be a whacky [Bonapartist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_former_French_throne_(Bonapartist)) I guess. But in SF I rather suspect a random [grognard](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/grognard), aka your figurine painter, is quite a bit more likely. Or just someone [obsessed with flags](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtfrNhTOOMht68ZIWSf_JPydxluMd004Ye3w&usqp=CAU). ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-modern-political-allegiance-is-indicated-by-showing-napoleons-flag-nowadays/942770/4 "2021-05-24T02:40:04Z")
Couple of thoughts: Displaying a flag doesn’t necessarily indicate allegiance or political affiliation; it can just demonstrate admiration, support or enthusiasm. Napoleon, while he was Emperor of the French, didn’t use a personal standard. He used the flag of the Empire, which was the same tricolour that is nowadays used by the Republic. His personal guard, the Régiment de Chasseurs à Cheval de la Garde, did have a regimental banner, which showed a crowned eagle on a thunderbolt, displayed against a white background. This is sometimes said to have been his personal banner, but I don’t think that’s technically correct. For a few months after his first abdication he was nominally sovereign of Elba, with the title of Emperor. The flag of Elba was a white banner, with a diagonal red stripe, on which appeared three golden bees. There are reports that during the few months that he ruled Elba Napoleon did use a personal standard, which was the flag of Elba, to which was added a crowned “N” in gold. So far as I know, no example survives, and we don’t know where the “N” was placed. The “N” within a laurel wreath, sometimes surmounted by an eagle, was in the nature of a symbol or badge. It wasn’t used in flags or coats of arms, so far as I know, but turns up as a decorative motive, e.g. in architecture, furniture, fabrics, artworks. ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-modern-political-allegiance-is-indicated-by-showing-napoleons-flag-nowadays/942770/5 "2021-05-24T02:49:12Z")
If it signifies any modern political affiliation, it seems most likely to be to the party of dicks. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/al9Brz5frSU/hqdefault.jpg "Bill Ted - "You Ditched Napoleon?!"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al9Brz5frSU) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-modern-political-allegiance-is-indicated-by-showing-napoleons-flag-nowadays/942770/6 "2021-05-24T03:23:49Z")
An antique dealer? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-modern-political-allegiance-is-indicated-by-showing-napoleons-flag-nowadays/942770/7 "2021-05-24T05:32:40Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > I mean traditionally being pro-Napoleon was associated with liberal (or at least small r republican) political views. How is supporting an hereditary emperor who overthrew a republic in a coup d’état a sign of republican political views? ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-modern-political-allegiance-is-indicated-by-showing-napoleons-flag-nowadays/942770/8 "2021-05-24T05:49:58Z")
You’d think, wouldn’t you? The answer is that, while Napoleon was a monarch who overthrew a republic, and who established client monarchies in the territories he conquered, headed by various of his friends and relations, the model of government that he exported by force to much of Europe was a lot less reactionary than the models it supplanted. In particular it was a version of monarchy which rested on a conception of citizenship that was a lot closer to the republican notion of citizenship that to the ancien régime notion of subject and, once those ideas had taken root, it was hard to extirpate them. We can see him as laying the ground for the liberal constitutional monarchies that developed in Europe during the nineteenth century, that in due course largely gave way to republics or “crowned republics”. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-modern-political-allegiance-is-indicated-by-showing-napoleons-flag-nowadays/942770/9 "2021-05-24T08:34:28Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > How is supporting an hereditary emperor who overthrew a republic in a coup d’état a sign of republican political views? From Wikipedia: " In its classical meaning, a republic was any stable well-governed political community. Both [Plato](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato) and [Aristotle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle) identified three forms of government: [democracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy), [aristocracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristocracy), and [monarchy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy). First Plato and Aristotle, and then Polybius and Cicero, held that the ideal republic is a [mixture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_government) of these three forms of government. The writers of the Renaissance embraced this notion." ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-modern-political-allegiance-is-indicated-by-showing-napoleons-flag-nowadays/942770/10 "2021-05-24T17:12:13Z")
> [@Dropo](#): > > If it signifies any modern political affiliation, it seems most likely to be to the party of dicks. Pretty sure the role of figurehead for that party is already taken 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-modern-political-allegiance-is-indicated-by-showing-napoleons-flag-nowadays/942770/11 "2021-05-25T07:58:37Z")
Never even knew old Nappy had a shield, but it’s pretty cool. Most like;ly the reaction it got in SF, the land of uber-coolness. Napoleon a liberal? That’s a bit of a stretch, but he did shake up Europe politically, even though France was a totalitarian state in reality, and arguably the first one. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-modern-political-allegiance-is-indicated-by-showing-napoleons-flag-nowadays/942770/12 "2021-05-26T09:55:33Z")
> [@UDS1](#): > > Displaying a flag doesn’t necessarily indicate allegiance or political affiliation; it can just demonstrate admiration, support or enthusiasm. …or just “I went to Venice and I bought this flag as a souvenir”, in the case of the St Mark’s flag I have hanging in my house. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-modern-political-allegiance-is-indicated-by-showing-napoleons-flag-nowadays/942770/13 "2021-05-26T14:54:40Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > Napoleon a liberal? That’s a bit of a stretch, but he did shake up Europe politically, even though France was a totalitarian state in reality, and arguably the first one. He absolutely was not a liberal (although some of his policies were pretty progressive by the standards of the day), but despite that he absolutely became a figurehead among what would now be called ‘liberals’ (though at the time were more likely to be called republicans). Even to the point of plots to rescue him from captivity. Similarly showing a flag of Lenin of would make your opinions on organized labor and workers rights pretty clear, notwithstanding the fact Lenin himself banned independent labor unions and ordered some of the worst suppression of striking workers.