# What motivates people to vote other people's rights away **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 4, 2009, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261 "2009-11-04T05:59:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/121 "2009-11-04T21:56:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This goes too far. Marriage has been and is largely about having children. There is not a one-to-one relationship, but the two are very tightly associated. No, they are not. There are no restrictions on infertile people marrying, nor are married people required to have children, nor are people with children required to get married. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/122 "2009-11-04T21:57:05Z")
The people who are against gay marriage think “being gay” is a sex act (and a depraved one at that), rather than realizing it is an orientation. I’m sure they view legalization of gay marriage is tacit approval of deviant sex acts. So depressing. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/123 "2009-11-04T21:58:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Following your logic, you and I’d be morally bound to grant polygamists the right to marry, too, right? Or be characterized as uncivil? No. There is an strong link between polygamy and abuse. That gives the government a compelling interest in preventing it. Which sucks for the non-abusive poly people out there (not that you cannot find other compelling government interests at work). There is no compelling government interest served in preventing same sex marriage. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/124 "2009-11-04T22:00:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > :rolleyes: > > And in what way is people wanting to marry tyranny? This is typical of the Right; they regard being unable to oppress others as oppression. In other words, they define freedom as tyranny; very Orwellian. I don’t thing their desires are tyrannical. The point is that their will disagreements in which route a society should take. When their is, we vote. Not everyone winds up happy, but it works. And, for the record, I didn’t bring up the concept of tyranny. But let me ask you since when is wanting to grant people equal legal status while preserving an important institution (which is my position) “tyrannical”? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/125 "2009-11-04T22:01:20Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I don’t have much time, so let me leave aside the arguments countering the miscegenation/racial analogies, which causes many of the pro SSM crowd in this thread to plug their fingers in their ears… They plug their ears because it is a hugely inconvenient argument for them to face. It is rare but this is one of those times where the analogy is basically spot on and illuminates the issue quite well. > [@](#): > > Why is it so strange to you that society might want to recognize with special significance an institution that celebrates the natural coming together of man and woman in a way that best benefits society? Why is it so hard to understand that we might want to recognize the type of union that is responsible for each and every one of us being here? I was born to an unwed mother. Lots and lots of people are. Further, there is nothing in the legal aspects of marriage that demands procreation. The state has nothing to say about that. At all. > [@](#): > > As far as the “tyranny of the majority” argument, is tyranny of the minority better? Handled better than I would have just above. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/126 "2009-11-04T22:01:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This goes too far. Marriage has been and is largely about having children. There is not a one-to-one relationship, but the two are very tightly associated. Now you may think that it needn’t be that way, but you’re wrong to make the claim you did. You’re wrong. There is precisely zero onus on a married couple to have children. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/127 "2009-11-04T22:01:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, they are not. There are no restrictions on infertile people marrying, nor are married people required to have children, nor are people with children required to get married. That’s not what you said. And what you did say does not follow from this. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/128 "2009-11-04T22:03:34Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Why is it so hard to understand that we might want to recognize the type of union that is responsible for each and every one of us being here? You can recognize it any way you damn well please. But the government should not be making these distinctions, anymore than they should be doing it babsed on the color of someones skin or whether someone is right or left handed. The governement is not out in the “recognizing” business, they are in the law business, and there is NO state purpose to disallow SSM. It just doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/129 "2009-11-04T22:04:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > while preserving an important institution (which is my position) “tyrannical”? Your position is false. It is a childish made up bogey story. SSM has no effect on your marriage. It’s frankly a stupid argument and no smart person would make it honestly. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/130 "2009-11-04T22:04:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I wasn’t pretending anything. A right is that for which denial of it has a legal remedy. When I said, “In forty-five states and the federal system, there is no ‘right to marry, period,’” it didn’t mean I had never heard the phrase. It meant I was denying that there was a legally cognizable right to do what you were describing. I’m still not sure we’re on the same page. I’m confused as to what exactly you’re challenging with your explanation of what a right is. There is, isn’t there, a legally cognizable right to marry, for which legal redress is available in the event of a violation? That’s all I’m describing. When the state of Virginia passes a Racial Integrity Act, that act abridges a certain right of the citizens of Virginia to form legal marriages. All I’m saying is that people have the right to get married; you I think have already agreed with that statement. I believe that you are choosing to interpret my saying “period” as an indication that what I am talking about is some kind of absolute right, free of any possible curtailment, but let me assure you again that that isn’t what I’m saying. There’s obviously no such thing. We can put to rest all of our (mutual, I promise, and very reasonable) fears of men marrying chickens and women marrying chocolates and babies marrying anthropomorphic tools. I’m talking about a right to marry in the same way we talk about any right. What is it that I’m misunderstanding? > [@](#): > > Under the law of what jurisdiction? For the justification? Your choice. It’s an honest question, and I think it really has to be the very first one answered. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/131 "2009-11-04T22:06:06Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I don’t thing their desires are tyrannical. The point is that their will disagreements in which route a society should take. When their is, we vote. Not everyone winds up happy, but it works. And, for the record, I didn’t bring up the concept of tyranny. But let me ask you since when is wanting to grant people equal legal status while preserving an important institution (which is my position) “tyrannical”? Since that entire premise is nonsense? Preventing SS couples from marriage isn’t about “preserving an important institution”. And shoving them off into a ghetto version of marriage isn’t about giving them equal status; it’s about keeping them from having equal status. > [@magellan01](#): > > That’s not what you said. And what you did say does not follow from this. That is what I said, and it does follow. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/132 "2009-11-04T22:07:33Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You’re wrong. There is precisely zero onus on a married couple to have children. I’m not wrong in the least. Try rereading the exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/133 "2009-11-04T22:07:54Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > If they’re eventually going to put it to voters, what is the advantage of not doing so first? An important clarification: This was a citizen referendum. The legislature didn’t pass their gay marriage bill, then say, “OK, public, now it’s your time to have a say!” ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/134 "2009-11-04T22:08:42Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > What? The ban on same-sex marriage is discrimination against an action, not against people. As I stated earlier gays can get married to members of the opposite sex. Also I, as a straight male, cannot marry another male. And Mildred Jeter could get married to any willing black man she chose. She chose a white man, Richard Loving. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/135 "2009-11-04T22:11:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’m not wrong in the least. Try rereading the exchange. I suggest you should do the same. Your suggestion that somehow marriage can’t be allowed to homosexuals because of child rearing, is an argument that does not follow. It’s ignorant handwaving. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/136 "2009-11-04T22:12:18Z")
In that case, **elfkin’s** point may well have been, “if they’re eventually going to put it to the voters because some conservative will stir up enough signatures to put it on the ballot (and you know they will), why not do the vote first to ‘head them off at the pass’ and not waste time”? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/137 "2009-11-04T22:12:43Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Your position is false. It is a childish made up bogey story. SSM has no effect on your marriage. It’s frankly a stupid argument and no smart person would make it honestly. Are you able to debate without attempting to ascribe motives are nesting in oblique ad hominems? If so, please demonstrate this new found ability. If not, I hope you have an enjoyable evening. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/138 "2009-11-04T22:14:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Are you able to debate without attempting to ascribe motives are nesting in oblique ad hominems? If so, please demonstrate this new found ability. If not, I hope you have an enjoyable evening. Explain in detail how marriage is damaged by allowing homosexuals you don’t even know to marry. I await your reasoned response. What I expect you to give is more handwaving. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/139 "2009-11-04T22:17:39Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I suggest you should do the same. Your suggestion that somehow marriage can’t be allowed to homosexuals because of child rearing, is an argument that does not follow. It’s ignorant handwaving. Since you typed this before my last request I will respond. A) There are no legal requirements for married people to have children. B) “Marriage is not about having children.” A does not equal B. Claiming that the institution of marriage is not associated—tightly with children, and family, displays a very poor grasp of both history and the world we live in. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261/140 "2009-11-04T22:17:48Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Why is it so hard to understand that we might want to recognize the type of union that is responsible for each and every one of us being here? Because the way in which you want to do this marginalizes a sizable minority of the country, and benefits nobody. Also, “marriage” isn’t responsible for each and every one of us being here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-motivates-people-to-vote-other-peoples-rights-away/516261.md?page=8)